Strategies to approach the Celtic Cross

Farzon

Hmm, your answer mirrors a lot of my own experiences with this spread over the last years.

blueeyetea said:
First, you can lay the cards face down, and you read each card by itself in the order of the spread. Laying them all face-up will distract you, especially if you see card 10.

I read this tip for the first time in the companion book to the Tarot of the Spirit. A reading "flows" with this method in my experience, while you would otherwise start with other forms of analysis. This way you're really forced to interpret each single card, even the difficult ones.

blueeyetea said:
2nd, if the reader and querent have discussed what is to be asked, card 1 to 4 shouldn't be a surprise for the querent. These cards are there to basically mirror the situation as it stands now. If the querent doesn't agree to what these cards say, then the spread is wrong and needs to be struck down and started over. There's no point going further. Either the question was wrong, the querent didn't tell you the whole story, the reader got distracted when shuffling, etc.

So much agreed! In old spreads from the Golden Dawn there was also a stage of verification at the beginning to see if the reading would turn out right.

blueeyetea said:
In this third pass, you look at the overall spread, and see what suits are there. Is there a dominance of one suit? Is one absent? Is there one number in particular that shows up in several times (3 or 4 cards of the same number is significant) Count the cards, what percentage to they represent based on 10 cards? For example, the major arcana represent 28% of the deck - so not unusual to see 2 cards out of 10 being major arcana. 3 or more could mean forces at work beyond the querent's control. For minor arcana - 3 cards or more of the same suit, or the same number, can be significant. You expect to see a balance overall. Any suit that's dominant is crowding out other suits.

I haven't done this for a long time... I used to sort the cards according to their elemental attributions at the end of a reading. Maybe I should revive this habit, it really was useful.

Another technique to close the reading, that I borrowed from the GD's Opening of the Key:

Pairing the cards at the end of the reading. Card 1 with card 10, card 2 with card 9 etc. In most of the cases this should give a good summary of the reading.

Carojulie

Hello,

After considereing the CC as "oldfashion", I have come to like it after a time. I think it is a great spread for looking at a specific issue in a deep way. I would not use it for general reading though, I would fear that the vast arrays of possible interpretations would just confuse me.

I have seen many different layout for the cards, and I am always astonished by the layouts that put the past (or recent past) on the right and the futur on the left.
For me, it is deeply ingrained in my head that past is symbolicaly on the left and futur symbolicaly on the right, so I lay my own CC with that in mind.
I lay cards 1 and 2, then start below and turn clockwise ; then build the pole in four cards, starting at the base.

Card 1 and 2: The situation, and what crosses it.
Card 3 (below) : The root of the situation
Card 4 (left) : The recent past
Card 5 (top): Something that the querent could use in this situation, a tool, a chance, an opportunity, what to rely on
Card 6 (right) : what's likely to happen next, considering the steps already taken and where the energy goes (if what's likely to happen is a catastrophe, it might still be time to try and change to course of things maybe)
Card 7: Influence of the querent in the situation
Card 8: external influences in the situation
Card 9: Hope OR fear (I agree that one card cannot represent both)
Card 10: Possible outcome, what to work toward or what to avoid, final advice (I am not fond of "outcome" cards as I am not into purely predictive readings)

I thank Barleywine and Blueyetea a lot for their considerable contribution, I learnt a lot from this thread just now !
But, I also would like to bring to your attention a great series of post from Theresa Reed The Tarot Lady (from the section "free ressources" on her blog) : Breaking Down the Celtic Cross.
Her series on the matter is probably what changed my view of the CC completely ! (except I did not journal every step as she recommanded, because I am a rebel - or more likely, because journaling does not excite me as much as I suspect it should)

Barleywine

Carojulie said:
Hello,

After considereing the CC as "oldfashion", I have come to like it after a time. I think it is a great spread for looking at a specific issue in a deep way. I would not use it for general reading though, I would fear that the vast arrays of possible interpretations would just confuse me.

I have seen many different layout for the cards, and I am always astonished by the layouts that put the past (or recent past) on the right and the futur on the left.
For me, it is deeply ingrained in my head that past is symbolicaly on the left and futur symbolicaly on the right, so I lay my own CC with that in mind.
I lay cards 1 and 2, then start below and turn clockwise ; then build the pole in four cards, starting at the base.

Card 1 and 2: The situation, and what crosses it.
Card 3 (below) : The root of the situation
Card 4 (left) : The recent past
Card 5 (top): Something that the querent could use in this situation, a tool, a chance, an opportunity, what to rely on
Card 6 (right) : what's likely to happen next, considering the steps already taken and where the energy goes (if what's likely to happen is a catastrophe, it might still be time to try and change to course of things maybe)
Card 7: Influence of the querent in the situation
Card 8: external influences in the situation
Card 9: Hope OR fear (I agree that one card cannot represent both)
Card 10: Possible outcome, what to work toward or what to avoid, final advice (I am not fond of "outcome" cards as I am not into purely predictive readings)

I thank Barleywine and Blueyetea a lot for their considerable contribution, I learnt a lot from this thread just now !
But, I also would like to bring to your attention a great series of post from Theresa Reed The Tarot Lady (from the section "free ressources" on her blog) : Breaking Down the Celtic Cross.
Her series on the matter is probably what changed my view of the CC completely ! (except I did not journal every step as she recommanded, because I am a rebel - or more likely, because journaling does not excite me as much as I suspect it should)

The main benefit I see in the CC for general life-reading is that it can be "peeled back" in layers when my sitter doesn't connect with the top layer - usually practical and situational in nature - and experiences the thrust of the reading at a different level. Add in reversals and you get a very thorough picture of his or her circumstances. Probably the most revealing reason for why I don't use it for simple, straightforward questions is because I don't ask the sitters what they want to know in advance, I let the cards connect with their subconscious and then read the result delivered by their shuffle-and-cut.

As far as putting the recent past at the right and the near future at the left, one reason I've seen for swapping them is the facing of the court-card Significator. I never do that, and stick with the clockwise rotation from the bottom.

Carojulie

Barleywine said:
The main benefit I see in the CC for general life-reading is that it can be "peeled back" in layers when my sitter doesn't connect with the top layer - usually practical and situational in nature - and experiences the thrust of the reading at a different level. Add in reversals and you get a very thorough picture of his or her circumstances.

Yes I see what you mean about using the CC in general reading.
I am not there yet ; usually I prefer having a subject at hand, an area to explore, in order to guide my reading. And I think the CC is very good at looking at a specific issue in depth, from many angles.
Usually sitters have something in mind, a specific area about wich they are wondering, and I like to read along that guide. Or, if there is no area given (some people do not want to share what they are wondering about) I will let one card guide me, that I pick up during shuffling (in the CC it could be the first card of the spread, but I have not tried that yet)
When I do entirely general readings it is with very short spread (one card, two, seldom three) and I am not sure so far of my pertinence in that area. So the CC seems too large a spread for me to use it that way (but that may change in the future of course ! I am constantly trying new things and revisiting my practice)
I suppose I could try starting a one or two card general reading, and building a CC around it if the first two cards resonate well. I'll keep that in mind next time an occasion arises.

Barleywine

Carojulie said:
Yes I see what you mean about using the CC in general reading.
I am not there yet ; usually I prefer having a subject at hand, an area to explore, in order to guide my reading. And I think the CC is very good at looking at a specific issue in depth, from many angles.
Usually sitters have something in mind, a specific area about wich they are wondering, and I like to read along that guide. Or, if there is no area given (some people do not want to share what they are wondering about) I will let one card guide me, that I pick up during shuffling (in the CC it could be the first card of the spread, but I have not tried that yet)
When I do entirely general readings it is with very short spread (one card, two, seldom three) and I am not sure so far of my pertinence in that area. So the CC seems too large a spread for me to use it that way (but that may change in the future of course ! I am constantly trying new things and revisiting my practice)
I suppose I could try starting a one or two card general reading, and building a CC around it if the first two cards resonate well. I'll keep that in mind next time an occasion arises.

I should probably add that, since I don't know in advance what the sitter is thinking, they could very well be asking a simple, specific question if they decide upon that option among the three I offer them. Sometimes the details of the question come out in the subsequent dialogue, sometimes they don't. As you note, some people would rather keep it private. In that case, the reading circles around the matter a bit and then zeros in, with confirmation from the sitter when it starts to jell. In those situations, a straight reading of the cards may not suffice, and I fall back on inspiration, imagination and ingenuity (aka "intuition") to flesh out the story.

Barleywine

Farzon said:
Another technique to close the reading, that I borrowed from the GD's Opening of the Key:

Pairing the cards at the end of the reading. Card 1 with card 10, card 2 with card 9 etc. In most of the cases this should give a good summary of the reading.

Have you noticed that pairing all the cards into sets in this way produces the number 11 (according to position, that is, not specific card) in each case? In the RWS model, that relates to Justice, the card of getting one's "just desserts." (In other words, what has been earned and not simply wished for.) That strikes me as a good analogy for the Celtic Cross in general (James Sturzaker even says: "An equal-armed cross is the magical weapon of path twenty-two"). It might be interesting to do the quintessence and pair it with Justice to get another perspective on that which is "deserved" by the querent. (I don't exclude court cards from the quint, so all ten of the cards would be represented.)

BeyondtheVeil

Celtic Cross is a simple Beginner's Spread

Wow! You guys are really into your spread.

I do believe it is a great beginner's spread because it helps you get clear on what the reading means right off the bat. It did me.

I do the CC spread {when I do it now} like this..

1. Significator
2. Crossing {What is negatively affecting the Significator/Subject}
3. Crowning {Top of Significator and means what's coming}
4. Base of the matter {at Bottom of Significator/Cross}
5. Passing Influence{Something to be released} to the right of #1
6. Future Influence [To the left of Significator #1}
7. Where I find myself {Or whomever the reading is about} Starting up
8. Where __finds themselves or environment around me/sitter
9. My hopes or fears
10. Outcome- Where I'm/sitter is heading. I usually use the CC as a 2 year timing spread. If i want a different timing, I say so before starting the reading. {Like this month.. next three months, etc}.

Simple..easy and to the point. I started out with this spread and my Daughters of the Moon deck. Awesome, accurate reading my very first shot at it. A bit traumatic for me as the Tower was my outcome card for two straight years. lol I stopped using the Daughters of the Moon deck after that. lol Though I know no real connection between the two ..

Great thread! I think the CC isn't difficult or meant to be difficult as it is a beginner's spread. It is simple, unless the reader makes it difficult, and goes straight to the point. It has past/future and outcome positions so no worrying about that. It can also be set with timing before the reading and that is simple as well.

Just my two cents :heart:

Hugs,
BeyondtheVeil

Trogon

When I first read the title of this thread, my thought was; "with great caution and with a long stick" or maybe "with a pistol and a whip."

But this has been a very interesting discussion about many things besides the actual spread. I am still learning, and always will be, after all.

When I first started learning Tarot, the neighbor who started me on it, and the book I was using, both suggested the CC as kind of The Spread for Tarot readings. After many years of experience now, I have to disagree with that. I also have to disagree with it being a good spread for a complete beginner. I suspect that many budding Tarot readers have been put off by this spread due to the complexity of it. It can be done by the novice (many of us are living proof of that), but it is a daunting task. Think back to when you had first picked up a Tarot deck and the LWB showed you the CC ... and you laid one out seeking some answer. And remember how you stared at all of those cards looking back at you ... I remember it being quite intimidating.

Having said all that, I do have to say that it is an excellent spread especially for delving deep into whatever the querent is asking about. But I will use other spreads for follow-up readings on those matters. So if someone comes to me and says they're having a serious fear reaction to something, or they're having a series of bad dreams. I might do a CC to initially delve into the issues. But for subsequent readings about what steps they need to work on for healing - I'll use other, shorter and more to the point, spreads.

For me personally, I turn all the cards face up as I lay them out. I do this with all of my spreads. I find, for my personal preference, that this works best as I get a general picture right away of where the reading is going to go. And, in many cases, knowing that "outcome" card will give me a great deal more insight into other cards.

As for the cards which show the present situation, don't forget; sometimes the querent needs to be reminded of what the actual situation is, because sometimes people lose sight of that. And sometimes a querent has come to me with a question and when we do the reading, it turns out there is something else that might matter more that they're trying to ignore, or the situation is completely different from what they picture it to be.

Be that as it may, a few years ago there was a thread about what different versions of the CC we use. It prompted me to design my own based on the one in Eden Gray's "Complete Guide to the Tarot" as well as other posts. I posted my version on that earlier thread here (mine is on the 2nd page, about 1/2 way down if you'd like to take a look); http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=9708&highlight=celtic+cross

[ETA] I almost forgot to say; there are a lot of good versions of the CC in that thread.

Farzon

Trogon said:
When I first started learning Tarot, the neighbor who started me on it, and the book I was using, both suggested the CC as kind of The Spread for Tarot readings. After many years of experience now, I have to disagree with that. I also have to disagree with it being a good spread for a complete beginner. I suspect that many budding Tarot readers have been put off by this spread due to the complexity of it. It can be done by the novice (many of us are living proof of that), but it is a daunting task. Think back to when you had first picked up a Tarot deck and the LWB showed you the CC ... and you laid one out seeking some answer. And remember how you stared at all of those cards looking back at you ... I remember it being quite intimidating.

Yeah, I remember that... it was really a hard school. Plus, I only learnt how to get better with smaller spreads. The smaller the spread, the more time you can invest to really go deep into the relations between the single cards. I didn't use the CC for a long time just because of my initial experience with it. I had it labeled as a fun spread with not much insight... which was quite wrong of course.

Trogon said:
Having said all that, I do have to say that it is an excellent spread especially for delving deep into whatever the querent is asking about. But I will use other spreads for follow-up readings on those matters. So if someone comes to me and says they're having a serious fear reaction to something, or they're having a series of bad dreams. I might do a CC to initially delve into the issues. But for subsequent readings about what steps they need to work on for healing - I'll use other, shorter and more to the point, spreads.

I found that to be true as well. It really is a very good spread to begin with as it will open up subsequent questions. I find it great to give a general overview. For short and straight-to-the-point-answers I prefer other spreads as well. As far as Tarot can be straight to the point, that is... ;-)

Trogon

Farzon said:
Yeah, I remember that... it was really a hard school. Plus, I only learnt how to get better with smaller spreads. The smaller the spread, the more time you can invest to really go deep into the relations between the single cards. I didn't use the CC for a long time just because of my initial experience with it. I had it labeled as a fun spread with not much insight... which was quite wrong of course.

I was pretty excited when I discovered that you could actually do readings with as few as 5, even 3 cards. And, like you, found that I could go deeper into the cards, as well as learning how the cards influenced each other, so much easier with just a few cards. Then I came to A.T. and discovered that you could actually make up your own spreads! :bugeyed: