Morgan Greer - Edition Identification

G6

These are so AWESOME!!!

I love them! Great find.

Thanks! Me too! I just imagine this deck sitting in someone's summer house on the east coast for thirty-five years waiting to be used! There's actually what looks like remnants of a bug squashed on the side of the box, so it adds to MG's backstory, lol! :)
 

Sulis

Well that's cool either way. Im not so hung up on which it is just want to know what I have label wise, but what I have deck wise is AWESOME!!!

I love the muted, faded look of it all and the 70's guys. The whole full beard, mustache thing is popular again though, ha! I just noticed my Chariot is off center. Hmm, I wonder if anyone else has an off center Chariot too?
I have one of the decks that has black borders and my deck also has an off centre Chariot.
 

G6

I have one of the decks that has black borders and my deck also has an off centre Chariot.

Thanks for the info! That helps narrow the timeline. I think mine was the after the black borders were removed edition because we have the same Chariot card! :)
 

G6

OH no they aren't all different. Now go back and sort them out properly. I think there are SEVEN patterns, but I may be misremembering.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=53420 - yes, seven.

In another thread reference from the thread above in post #12 Annabelle says...

"Just wanted to mention that I just got a Morgan Press edition copy of the Morgan Greer tarot in the mail today, and it also has the small black borders. According to volume 3 of Kaplan's Encyclopedia, Morgan Press published a first edition of the deck with no borders, then a second edition of the deck with small black borders, and then removed the borders from subsequent printings."

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=43054&highlight=Morgan+Greer&page=2

If this is true and the black border is the 2nd edition I may have a 1st edition.
 

gregory

Yes I think you do - as do I.

Now get back to those stars.
 

G6

MG Backs - Star Patterns

Yes I think you do - as do I.

Now get back to those stars.

Well, that was annoying, BUT here, there's 7 different star patterns on the card backs as best I can tell... ;-)

The card backs also go from lighter blue to darker blue (see pic). Could be time, perhaps they all started darker blue?
 

Attachments

  • MG-Star_Patterns.jpg
    MG-Star_Patterns.jpg
    128.9 KB · Views: 434

DustyWhite

Well, that was annoying, BUT here, there's 7 different star patterns on the card backs as best I can tell... ;-)

The card backs also go from lighter blue to darker blue (see pic). Could be time, perhaps they all started darker blue?

Oh! A Morgan-Greer discussion! Can I play? I hope I can help!

First, as to the shades of blue. Well, it would be "nice" to say that they started out dark blue (hint 1975) and faded over time, but by the time the MG decks were printed (1979) M&M had been messing around with blue card backs for almost 5 years. It all started in mid to late 1974 when they did the AQ decks for PGC. Those had a solid blue back. But the ink spread was costly and inconsistent, so they invented the swirly pattern in 1976.

Zoom ahead to 1979 and all MG decks have 7 patterns of stars and various amounts of blue ink that "stuck" to the card backs. These decks ran for a few years. I do not think it is possible to tell the date of the cards by the hue of the blue, much as I would like . . . um . . "to."

(Sorry, that was unforgivable)

But, I may be able to help a little with some clues. If I may (ahem . . .)

The Encyclopedia PUBLISHED by Kaplan (with author credits) is correct, and so is Holly, but it is a blend of who is righter about what. The second series was most likely (80%+ probability) the black bordered cards. Here are some clues that should help. I am putting them in timeline form ONLY as a convenience, not as an iron clad fact:

By the way, if all of this is too confusing I am attaching images :)

Most likely "1st edition":
1) Brown boxes (and possibly Aqua) with NO STARS on the box and a simpler font. Borderless edition—horrible back print quality (this has been verified with another researcher). Large stapled LWB printed in black ink. Price and address on back of box. (Note, this seems to be the only top-lift version with a price on it)

2) Brown AND Aqua boxes (this part has been verified) with stars and the new font. Black borders—much nicer card back print quality. Large LWB (12 panel) foldout, printed in brown ink. No price. Address on back.

3) Aqua boxes with stars and new font. Borderless—varying card back print quality; usually good. Small LWB (12 panel) foldout. No price. Address on back.

4) Blue boxes with stars and new font. Borderless—varying card back print quality; usually good. Small LWB (12 panel) foldout. No price. NO ADDRESS on back.

I hope this helps. I have had the good fortune to speak with the Morgans on several occasions; VERY nice people by the way, with fond memories of working in the print shop. The cost of the ink and the problems with the blue on the card backs was the main contributing factor to the problems of the stars and swirls and ink saturation. Unlike Rider (circa 1910-1939) they did not use ready-made card stock and so there was some issue with the "back" sides they printed on. Those are almost never as bright and clear as the faces of their decks, except in the Karin Koal days, and some of the early AQ decks (which is a different thread).

Also, I have had a running argument of Brown vs. Aqua vs. Blue box being the first. I believe the LWB is the final arbiter, and that staples were replaced by foldouts, which were replaced by smaller foldouts. The normal to decorative font and lack of box stars (above) lends credence to this theory.

Please feel free to correct anything above that is wrong.
 

Attachments

  • FullSizeRender-1.jpg
    FullSizeRender-1.jpg
    157.4 KB · Views: 420
  • IMG_0307.JPG
    IMG_0307.JPG
    115.1 KB · Views: 421
  • FullSizeRender-2.jpg
    FullSizeRender-2.jpg
    196.1 KB · Views: 449
  • FullSizeRender.jpg
    FullSizeRender.jpg
    161.1 KB · Views: 430
  • IMG_0308.JPG
    IMG_0308.JPG
    130.6 KB · Views: 445

DustyWhite

here is one more image :)

This is the brown box with the stapled large LWB versus the blue box with the foldout LWB in brown ink.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0309.JPG
    IMG_0309.JPG
    137.4 KB · Views: 448

G6

Oh, Wow!

Oh! A Morgan-Greer discussion! Can I play? I hope I can help!

First, as to the shades of blue. Well, it would be "nice" to say that they started out dark blue (hint 1975) and faded over time, but by the time the MG decks were printed (1979) M&M had been messing around with blue card backs for almost 5 years. It all started in mid to late 1974 when they did the AQ decks for PGC. Those had a solid blue back. But the ink spread was costly and inconsistent, so they invented the swirly pattern in 1976.

Zoom ahead to 1979 and all MG decks have 7 patterns of stars and various amounts of blue ink that "stuck" to the card backs. These decks ran for a few years. I do not think it is possible to tell the date of the cards by the hue of the blue, much as I would like . . . um . . "to."

(Sorry, that was unforgivable)

But, I may be able to help a little with some clues. If I may (ahem . . .)

The Encyclopedia PUBLISHED by Kaplan (with author credits) is correct, and so is Holly, but it is a blend of who is righter about what. The second series was most likely (80%+ probability) the black bordered cards. Here are some clues that should help. I am putting them in timeline form ONLY as a convenience, not as an iron clad fact:

By the way, if all of this is too confusing I am attaching images :)

Most likely "1st edition":
1) Brown boxes (and possibly Aqua) with NO STARS on the box and a simpler font. Borderless edition—horrible back print quality (this has been verified with another researcher). Large stapled LWB printed in black ink. Price and address on back of box. (Note, this seems to be the only top-lift version with a price on it)

2) Brown AND Aqua boxes (this part has been verified) with stars and the new font. Black borders—much nicer card back print quality. Large LWB (12 panel) foldout, printed in brown ink. No price. Address on back.

3) Aqua boxes with stars and new font. Borderless—varying card back print quality; usually good. Small LWB (12 panel) foldout. No price. Address on back.

4) Blue boxes with stars and new font. Borderless—varying card back print quality; usually good. Small LWB (12 panel) foldout. No price. NO ADDRESS on back.

I hope this helps. I have had the good fortune to speak with the Morgans on several occasions; VERY nice people by the way, with fond memories of working in the print shop. The cost of the ink and the problems with the blue on the card backs was the main contributing factor to the problems of the stars and swirls and ink saturation. Unlike Rider (circa 1910-1939) they did not use ready-made card stock and so there was some issue with the "back" sides they printed on. Those are almost never as bright and clear as the faces of their decks, except in the Karin Koal days, and some of the early AQ decks (which is a different thread).

Also, I have had a running argument of Brown vs. Aqua vs. Blue box being the first. I believe the LWB is the final arbiter, and that staples were replaced by foldouts, which were replaced by smaller foldouts. The normal to decorative font and lack of box stars (above) lends credence to this theory.

Please feel free to correct anything above that is wrong.

Oh, Wow! Thanks for all the info! Based on your pics I have #3 from above. So, are you saying all those versions are debatably 1st editions? What is your opinion about which edition #3 from above is or have you numbered them by your opinion of edition order? Thanks! :)