Sun on the Death Card

Dulcimer

Aha! So you agree that The Sun card stands for "rising" then?
 

RChMI

The card, yes.. to a point. The Sun itself, no... not really. :)
 

Parzival

I like the associations of Sun as Father, Child as Son, and Horse as Spirit, but what of the penta-coned bloom in the black square? Isn't this the inner Sunrise of the Spirit as the outer sun ends its cycle and falls? Life lifted out of death? And doesn't the ship on the Nile behind the Horse connect to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, that is, the journey of the soul into the hereafter? (It looks like Theban rock cliffs over the river.) After the Sun has descended, doesn't the soul journey into the beyond, born into the Otherworld?
 

RChMI

Frank Hall said:
I like the associations of Sun as Father, Child as Son, and Horse as Spirit, but what of the penta-coned bloom in the black square? Isn't this the inner Sunrise of the Spirit as the outer sun ends its cycle and falls? Life lifted out of death? And doesn't the ship on the Nile behind the Horse connect to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, that is, the journey of the soul into the hereafter? (It looks like Theban rock cliffs over the river.) After the Sun has descended, doesn't the soul journey into the beyond, born into the Otherworld?
The inner 5 petals, taken in conjunction with the 4 coners of the banner could denote the process of Initiation, which is symbolized by the number Nine. (5+4=9)

The inner 5 petals and the outer 5 petals taken together in conjunction with the 4 corners of the banner could denote the aspect of the next card - XIV Temperance. (5+5+4=14)

The inner 5 petals and the outer 5 petals and the 5 leaves taken in conjunction with the 4 corners of the banner could denote the ideals of the result that can be seen in the forthcoming card - XIX The Sun. (5+5+5+4=19)

The inner 5 petals and the outer 5 petals and the 5 leaves along with the singular hub of the flower taken in conjunction with the 4 corners of the banner could denote the aspect of the final process before perfection of the other forthcoming card - XX Judgment. (5+5+5+1+4=20)

The inner 5 petals and the outer 5 petals and the 5 leaves along with the singular hub of the flower taken in conjunction with the 4 corners of the banner and that of the pole could denote the aspect of the perfection of the operation in the final card - XXI The World. (5+5+5+1+4+1=21)


And why look to "foreign" sources, when the Tarot is actually The Western Book of the Dead. ;)
 

retiredguy

Rising and Setting

In response to the Sun on The Death card.

If you believe in reincarnation, perhaps it represents both the rising
and the setting sun. It is setting when your previous life has passed.
It is rising for the new life that is going to begin.
 

Dulcimer

RChMI said:
The card, yes.. to a point. The Sun itself, no... not really. :)

You can't have it both ways.
 

RChMI

Regardless of directional icongraphy, or emblematic imagery, and XIII Death being the first card in the triadic series relaing to the Nigredo process, I would have to say I'm in the Setting Sun camp on this one.

As to the Sun in XIX The Sun, it appears as static at its midheaven to me, therefore is stationary, neither rising or setting... The figure of the child as a Homoculus, can be seen as the rising aspect in that card.
 

Dulcimer

retiredguy said:
It is rising for the new life that is going to begin.
That wouldn't be death then.


In several of the posts in this thread there is an avoidance to accepting the representation of death in this card. Many are trying to find a way out of it. Try Atu XX Judgement for that (forget The Sun if you aren't convinced). The fact is The Death card means death. Simple and irrevocable. Death is a part of life that must be acknowledged and respected. It can be nasty and brutish, we can die alone, sick and bloody, in a drugged out state or in a state of grace. You cannot appreciate death until you experience it. When you try to revive a loved one even though you know you can't. When your child is murdered or you wife is killed by a drunk driver. Pointless meaningless deaths serving no plan. The Tarot is not a philosophical plaything. This card represents the reality of death. It brings down all and everyone. Everyone you love is going to die. And not the hopes of rebirth or of heavenly peace in the arms of Jesus will save you from the pain and grief for the loss of your beloved. "In the midst of life we are in death". Neither I nor the card is suggesting it is the end, full stop. Simply that if you're looking for anything other than death in this card you are missing the point.

The sun IS setting. Live with it.
 

Dwaas

This card represents the reality of death. It brings down all and everyone.

True for most matters and beings. But not the sun, that will rise again and again, every day! Even no matter who's dead. So I say the sun is rising. And I have no special back ups for this, no trinities, no history facts, whatever, it is just how I feel it, and that was the question. I think the sun is rising, because it looks like that to me. :)
Blessings