Scorpio: Water in the Desert?

Thirteen

StellarMyst said:
Happy to meet you finally! Love the avatar.
Thank you! very happy to meet you as well!

With the above in mind, The elements of the Zodiac have a similar order as well.

H I) Aries Cardinal Fire
H II) Taurus Fixed Earth
H III) Gemini Mutable Air...etc
Heh. Occams razor is always the best answer to such questions. You're quite right. Scorpio's symbol could have been a vulture and it'd still be a fixed water sign if this pattern must be maintained.

Thanks for bringing the question down to earth!
 

Thirteen

Rosanne said:
The Zodiac signs are thought to come from Babylonia- and they were the path to the moon not Solar like they are now. I would think that the Scorpion was most likely the large bug called a Water Scorpion that lived in the river deltas. They look like the sand Scorpion- but they do not sting- they bite. They also have a hollow tube tail that they stick up out of the water to breath. The Arachnid that is the traditional Scorpion- also lives in moist places, by ponds, rivers and deltas, under rocks and in drains also- The sand scorpion is only one variety.
That's fascinating and I really like it! It certainly sounds more like Scorpio than the usual desert scorpion--especially the cool hollow tube tail--very Scorpio sneaky, clever and covert ;)
 

StellarMyst

Thirteen said:
Thank you! very happy to meet you as well!


Heh. Occams razor is always the best answer to such questions. You're quite right. Scorpio's symbol could have been a vulture and it'd still be a fixed water sign if this pattern must be maintained.

Thanks for bringing the question down to earth!

Not a problem. I'm glad I was able to help a little. ;)

Blessings,

StellarMyst
 

Rosanne

Thirteen said:
That's fascinating and I really like it! It certainly sounds more like Scorpio than the usual desert scorpion--especially the cool hollow tube tail--very Scorpio sneaky, clever and covert.
Well if you look at the medieval illustrated celestial Star maps you will Scorpio is at the toe of Ophiucus/Serpentarius explained here... http://users.winshop.com.au/annew/Ophiuchus.html
and the Water Scorpion was commonly called the Toe-Biter- Poor Ophiucus poisoned by a snake and bitten on the toe too! Interestingly enough this is the Sign of the Herbalist and his cures.~Rosanne
 

Thirteen

Rosanne said:
Poor Ophiucus poisoned by a snake and bitten on the toe too!
Actually, I just went through a whole post on Ophiucus...if we go by the actual Greek myth, he wasn't poisoned by a snake--rather, he had a snake wrapped around a staff as his symbol of being a healer. This was, in part, because he had the blood of Medusa (serpent-headed) which allowed him to heal or poison folk.

The interesting thing is that the snake about the staff symbol became mixed up with Hermes' wand--which was originally a messanger wand with two ribbons. Those ribbons were replaced by snakes, and Hermes/Mercury, who was Lord of Alchemists, became the god of healers, his wand the symbol of doctors--thanks, in part, to the mix-up with Ophiucus-the-doctor-god's staff.

Which is why the Magician in the Tarot stands for doctors if one is using a deck where the Magician is ruled by Mercury.

I also note some fascinating recursion of myths here. Like the mention of Phorbas who cleansed a Greek Isle of serpents (can we say, "St. Patrick"?), like the staff with it's serpent being related to the staff-turned-to-serpent trick that Moses pulls off, and also to the serpent in Hindu which goes up the spine, Chakra to Chakra. I note that in this constellation, the serpent is wrapped about the guy rather than about a staff, more like the Serpent wrapped about the branches of the Tree of Knowledge.

And, finally, this very much explains why Scorpio is often related to serpents--not only the relationship of poisons but the closeness of Scorpio to this constellation, so close that there's some confusion about which should be the Zodiac sign!

All really fascinating stuff! Wouldn't that have been interesting if the Ophiucus constellation had been picked over Scorpio to be the sign...In some ways, it really suits Scorpio: can poison or heal.
 

finaflight

HI Thirteen

I emailed the gentleman who writes the morning horoscope in the Toronto Star - Phil Booth - I find him very good for having to put a whole sign into a couple of lines. Love his creative writing.

Anyway, hope this helps.

The image accorded to the zodiac signs don’t necessarily correspond to the element they represent. For instance, Aquarius is an air sign even though the image used is the water-bearer. This often leads to the misapprehension of Aquarius being a water-sign – not so.

It’s interesting to note too, that Scorpions don’t only just live in deserts. They’re plentiful in southern France, and I even once saw a documentary showing tiny scorpions crawling on the stone sea defences of Portsmouth in southern England. Their pincers and hard carapace do make them bear a uncanny resemblance to crabs and lobsters.

Oh, and just to confuse things a little more, there is also a tradition that prefers to accord the eagle as the image for Scorpio.

Cosmoline
 

ravenest

Why are those stars up there a scorpion?

I’m not sure about the suggested attribution of Isis and the Nile - after all, all the places and gods of Egypt are centred around or on the Nile.

It does seem to be a scorpion on the Dendra Zodiac. There are a few Egyptian Zodiacs extant and most are in a linear or strip form. There are linear zodiacs at Dendra as well, however the most well known and most commonly depicted one is circular (Dendra B Zodiac – the one I’m referring to). It is from a late period; Ptolemaic, heavily influenced by Greek ideas. The Zodiac also shows evidence of later additions during temple reconstructions. The Greek ideas were different, though similar and probably originally adopted from the Egyptians, to return with modifications. Also, by then, the Egyptian system had absorbed other influences. Perhaps the circular Dendra Zodiac was an attempt to show how the two systems worked together?

In this zodiac one can detect animals familiar to us and the 12 astrological ‘sign’ divisions of later astrology in an inner circle – including a scorpion. But, in the outer circle, the ‘spirits’ of the decans from an older Egypt zodiac are found and the symbolism is vastly different – there is no scorpion. It is a circular representation of the linear zodiacs appearing elsewhere and show star groups on the ecliptic (whereas in the centre and between the ‘sign’ animals are the constellations going from the celestial pole to the local horizons).

Looking at these STAR GROUPS, or decan spirits (as the Egyptians saw them), 3 of them cover the stars near that section of the sky attributed to Scorpio (and Opheichus). The first is called ‘Tepy Shentet’ (‘before the spheres’) and is shown as a crocodile headed deity with a standard of horns and Sun disc. Its deity is Asar BUT it also contains the star Antares, which is related to Selqit, the scorpion goddess.

So if there was an Egyptian origin to the Scorpio symbolism perhaps it was this?

As to why it is water. It just turns out that way from circle dynamics, divisions and the orderly progression of the elements .... doesn't it?

These symbols are not as clear as they could be. The examples in the above posts outline the fact - eg. a water pourer is air?

I get a better understanding (on this level) if Egyptian gods are substituted. In the Scorpio example it would be Anpu (Anubis). This Neter gives a wealth of information and insight in understanding the 'Scorpionic' processes.
 

Gemini Rising

I think this is all fascinating stuff! I had always wondered about that too, why a desert animal should be a water sign. All the legends I've read of course refer to Orion, but doesn't exactly answer the question.

And it's true that Scorpio is interpreted to have many forms, the serpent, scorpion, and eagle--even in Tarot, where the Wheel of Fortune and the World that depict the signs of the Fixed Cross have the symbol of the eagle. If I were to choose, I'd have to pick the Serpent to be a better symbol of the Scorpion. It is sly, secretive, and clever, and doesn't bite until provoked like a Scorpio's vengeance. Also, there are sea snakes that account for the water element. Also, a snake has the power to heal AND hurt like Scorpio--its bite can kill, but it's antivenom can cure the affects of its own poison...I'm not 100% sure if a Scorpion's venom is used as a cure.
 

LixiPixi

Thirteen said:
This has probably been asked, but...

Why is Scorpio a water sign? Scorpions are land creatures--in fact, they're most often desert creatures. Does this relate to Isis (Egyptian goddess of the Nile) who was protected by scorpions?

I, being a scorpion myself, have often wondered this very same question! The only thing I can figure is that because we're an emotional bunch of creatures we've been added to the water group for lack of better placement. (Kind'of like the last person to be chosen for a team of kickball.) For me, I've always thought Aquarius would be more likely water over the Scorpion.

All I know is I'm a Water/Scorpion living amongst 4 Air signs, 2 Leos, 1 Aries, and 1 Sag......SOMEONE SAVE ME!

LOL

LP~ <----scrolling back to read some of the previous responses now....

EDIT: OUCH!! :cool:
 

Carole

Scorpio: Water in the desert?

I wanted to quote the original question posted by Thirteen, but I didn't find the tools to do it, so here is what I have learned about the symbolism of Scorpio.


SCORPIO's symbol is known as the Scorpion, a small animal with a deadly poisonous sting in its tail. It's glyph resembles a serpent, also a lethal animal. In ancient times this sign was symbolized as an eagle, and it was considered the sign of generation, the human ability to produce new life. This high responsibility was abused by mankind bringing the noble act of producing new life to the earthy level of sex alone. Then the symbol was changed to the Scorpion, with emphasis on its sting and came to be known as the sign of sex.

In ancient civilization, Scorpio was symbolised by both the Phoenix and the snake because they implied the idea of rebirth (regeneration). The phoenix was the mythical bird which reincarnated from its own ashes. The snake was also associated with rebirth because it sheds its skin after moulting. Now the eagle and the Scorpion are used as symbols of this sign, probably alluding to the ability to soar over terrenal levels (the spiritual Scorpio), or creep in the entrails of Earth (the instinctual Scorpio), both of them characteristics attributed to natives of the sign Scorpio, as it's considered to be a sign of extremes.

Carole