.....The Moon is applying to Mars from his place of detriment and traditionally Mars would reject her but... On the other hand why would the Moon apply to this Mars in her own place of detriment at all? Traditionally she shouldn't see anything in him. I don't know, we'll see what the future brings but I'm not sure about this.
You have the essence of the Medieval view but that's not the only 'tradition' nor the 'gold standard; of the tradition. It's certainly one way of looking at the issues and it has its roots in the earlier Hellenistic tradition. But that earlier tradition (which lacked a horary branch) sees the planet in sign relationship as always (with the exception of a planet in it's own sign) as lying in the relationship between the planet and its host (or dispositor). In the case of exaltation that relationship can improve the way that the planet performs its signification. Thus Mars in Capricorn has Saturn as it's host. Both planets are concerned with dividing, though in different ways. Mars is aggressive, impetuous and full of action. Saturn is slow ponderous and reflects on its actions. Thus with the exaltation we get more considered use of aggression or action, or even a decision not to act. The considered use of action, rather than action for its own sake.
The Moon in Capricorn brings together the Moon and Saturn. Their significations are opposite. The Moon is inclusive, it brings things together but its host is more concerned with excluding or rejection, with dividing between us and them (or even me and them). The Moon is uncomfortable in Capricorn, whereas Mars is happy and able to act with greater purpose.
Now that of itself does not mean that the Moon would dislike or repulse Mars, or that what Mars signifies would be rejected by what the Moon signifies. It means that Mars gets on with Saturn, whereas the Moon does not. One of the characteristics of planets that has fallen out of use is the concept of 'friends' and 'enemies' From their nature, Moon and Saturn are not friends.
I think the Medieval approach takes things to a level that was not originally intended. I'm not saying it's wrong but it's not the only way of looking at things.
Ronia said:
Yes, the female significator was Venus. At this point Venus was combust (though separating by more than 3 degrees already but still under the beams), in the 6th and in Scorpio - pretty much as bad as it gets. That she was combust has an explanation in real life and indeed she was burned (there is no other man though). In any case, there was no upcoming aspect between Venus and Mars, no translation of light, nothing else to give positive answer. The only slightly positive thing would be Venus being in Mars' sign and Mars being in her triplicity but this could simply point out at the fact that these two people are finding each other "not bad".
Yes, it does indicate attraction though not at a level that would produce a result (such as Mutual Reception by sign). It's also interesting that the Moon is in Taurus, which is Venus' sign as well as the Moon's exaltation. From the above discussion the Moon draws on Venus for support that will push up her own effectiveness.
Ronia said:
According to my limited knowledge, the Moon is co-significator of the querent and also kind of signifies the question, the thing asked about itself, right? It can't be the other person.
Returning to Bonatti, he says that the Moon 'particpates in signification of everything.' It is concerned in the signification of 'every question, nativity, enterprise and business and her good condition to show the good issue of the thing and so on the contrary'
The Moon is not the thing itself but is an indicator of its 'wellbeing' (my word) The Moon if strong can bring the matter to perfection, even if the main significators are weak. For the tradition (all branches) the Moon is the key planet in determining what happens here on Earth.
Ronia said:
Yes, I took the Moon as secondary, however I took the Moon as the querent herself, considering the Moon being the querent's co-significator and thinking that the querent seems to be the one more eager to pursue this connection with the questited (the Moon being the faster and applying to Mars).
The question is: will they get together or not? Romantically, that is. If I take the Moon as an external force, then as a ruler of the 4th I can't really see how either their families or home lifes or anything 4th house related would bring them together. Both are immigrants here, no families with them at all.
From Bonatti, the Moon is all pervasive in sublunary matters. It mediates what happens in the heavens to what happens on Earth. It's not an external force in the sense of something separate from other things here on Earth. It helps to indicate whether the heavens are supportive of the question or not. Indeed it's the most important indicator for some writers. That means that the Moon in bad condition can mean that the matter is not perfected, even if the main significators point to perfection. One of the things the chart shows is the strength of support for the matter, through the strength of the Moon at the time the question was asked. That's part of the reason why a VOC Moon means that the chart is not fit for judgement, ditto Moon in the Via Combusta for Medieval writers.
I think you are particularising the Moon to much to being the querent and nothing more. Lilly often uses the phrase 'give the Moon to the querent' meaning not that the Moon is the querent but the Moon indicates (signifies) support for the querent by it's motion, aspects and placement.
Ronia said:
But the question for me remains: will the trine from the Moon to Mars be sufficient for a positive outcome? And in general, what do you think Minderwiz about the power of the Moon in horary? Would it be sufficient?
I've said something about the role of the Moon, not only in horary but in charts generally. Will the Moon bring about perfection here?
Yes assuming that it has no debilities. You have already indicated that it is in the twelfth, it would obviously be better in the first.
A new Moon or a Full Moon are not good, nor of course is an eclipse. A waxing Moon is good, as is a fast Moon. You described the chart as being cast before the Full Moon in Taurus, so how far from that Full Moon was it? You have a waxing Moon which is good but if it's already applying to the opposition with the Sun. then it's not far off loosing it's power.
So: Strong points
Moon in exaltation, Waxing Moon (increasing in light)
Weak points
Moon in the twelfth. Possible Full Moon
And of course there are other factors, such as aspects from benefics and malefics (including accidental ones) conjunctions with fixed stars, if any
If the latter are positive then I'd say the matter will perfect. If they are neutral and the Moon is not at Full, then I'd also go along with the matter perfecting.
If the latter factors are adverse, then the matter may not perfect. If they are very negative or the Moon is on the point of Full, then the matter won't perfect.
Ronia said:
P.S. All significators are actually in some dignity of Venus, I just noticed. The Moon is not only in Taurus but in Venus' terms as well. Mars is in Venus's triplicity and borderline in her terms, too (leaving though). May be that shows their liking each other. Or may be he doesn't like her that much anymore. I'm confused.
Yes it does indicate that they are attracted though not necessarily very strongly. It's at least a basis for going somewhere LOL.
