Horary strictures

kittymumu

Hi,

This is something I have been questioning about for a quite awhile. I had my charts done professionally, but when I look at these charts now I found that there are some strictures based on what it states on http://www.horary.com/sward/Consids.html. I understand that there could be some exceptions if planets in our natal chart are placed at certain degrees in certain sign or house. But for my charts, even after I check all those factors, the strictures still exist. (such as late ascendant, late moon) Since these charts were done by professional astrologers...it made me wonder if we really need to follow every single rule before judging a chart?

If let say, Saturn is the significator of the quesited in a relationship chart and is located in either 1st or 7th house, should we disregard the chart because it's against the rule?

Also how long should we wait to create another chart if the one prior is not radical?

Thanks so much!
 

Minderwiz

kittymumu said:
This is something I have been questioning about for a quite awhile. I had my charts done professionally before. But when I look at these charts now I found that there are some strictures based on what it states on http://www.horary.com/sward/Consids.html. I understand that there could be some exceptions if planets in our natal chart are placed at certain degrees in certain sign or house. But for some of my charts even after I check all those, the strictures still exist. (such as late ascendant, late moon) AND these charts were done by professional astrologers...it really made me wonder if we need to follow every single rule here before judging a chart?

The strictures or 'considerations before judgement' are not binding but they can suggest that things may not work out as indicated by a simple reading of the chart. If you like, they are a warning to be careful. So you can judge such a chart but you should take the considerations into account when giving your judgement of what will happen.

You will also find that practising Astrologers differ somewhat on which considerations to follow, or even seem to be seemingly inconsistent in treating with them. This is usually because in all ways the chart seems to describe the circumstances perfectly but there is one small fly in the ointment - one consideration. Should that outweight the rest of the chart or should we read but add a warning. That's a matter of opinion and I've probably done both, depending on how I felt at the time. Astrologer's intuition, based on experience does count.

I keep to the VOC Moon, though I have found that often a second chart cast a day or two later can still give a meaningful and accurate reading. I don't bother with Moon in late degrees, because either the VOC consideration holds or it's going to make an aspect early in the next sign (which Lilly allows). I must admit that I've not tried to read for the very rare occasions that I have the Moon applying to an aspect when using the Hellenistic 13 degree orb for the Moon and one day I'll have a go at that to test it.

I've not had an issue with the Moon in the Via Combusta, I read even if it's there. Early and lated degrees are more likely to indicate that it might be too soon to judge or that things have already been decided and no action can reverse the situation. I do tend not to read for charts with these considerations and will try again later.

kittymumu said:
Also there're two strictures I don't quite understand. They are "Ruler of the 7th unfortunate" and "Equal testimonies". Could you help me out by elaborating a bit on them?

The other question would be, how long should we wait to create another chart if the one prior is not radical?

The seventh house is also the house of the Astrologer or 'Artist' as Lilly puts it - the 'other' person involved in the reading besides the querent. Therefore if the seventh or its ruler is afflicted then the judgement of the Astrologer might well be impaired.

'Afflicted' here means a square or an opposition from either Mars or Saturn to the Descendant. Lilly also includes the ruler of the seventh being retrograde or impedited (again squres or oppositions from Mars or Saturn). However, Lilly stresses that this consideration should only apply to those questions which do not concern seventh house matters. So if you are asking a question about marriage then you can read the chart even if the significator of the seventh is in a tight applying square to Mars - that is a condition that's relevant to the person or thing signified by the seventh.

'Equal testimonies' basically means that the question doesn't give a clear answer. It could go either way, so you don't form a judgement that you are not sure of. You wait a while and then try again.

How long should you wait. That's very much a matter of opinion. Personally I tend not to wait very long. I usually will allow around 15 hours or more, which usually means the following day, as I tend not to get up in the middle of the night to cast a horary chart LOL.

One word of caution there, if you leave it exactly 24 hours you will get virtually the same chart with small planetary movements. That's fine if it's the Moon VOC that caused the problem but if it was early or late degrees then you are likely to get them again. So I will do a morning chart if the last one was afternoon or evening or an afternoon or evening chart if the last one was morning.

I allow three attempts. If I get three "no reads" then I'll say that I can't answer it. I've only ever had one or two of those. If I get one "no read" I'll add a rider to the second reading to warn that things might not be as clear cut as the chart suggests.

I still miss things, as Ronia will tell you - I did a second chart reading for her after the first attempt yielded a VOC Moon. The second chart promised much but I failed to take into account the translation of light was done by a malefic and thus failed to add a warning that the odds were against the person signified helping out. When I recast the chart using Whole Sign Houses, I found that Saturn was in the seventh house - the judgement of the Astrologer was impaired.
 

kittymumu

Thanks Minderwiz! This is very helpful.

Do you consider lord of hour an important factor for judging the validity of a chart?

I found that it's very easy for even experienced astrologers to overlook details of the chart. The astrologer who did my relationship chart told me that I will get close to the person (quesited) in the near future because of the applying square (within 3 degrees) between 2 main significators. However, he totally missed the partial conjunct between questied's sig and another planet that will happen before the square and this complete change the outcome. (I mean I did get to meet up with the quesited not long after the chart was done but there was no no getting closer between us or what so ever as predicted by the chart)

I think we really need to be super detail oriented when judging charts. Any minor detail could make big difference in the results.
 

Minderwiz

Thanks Minderwiz! This is very helpful.

Do you consider lord of hour an important factor for judging the validity of a chart?

I used to but now the main factor I look go is whether the chart describes the circumstances of the question.

Lilly's agreement between Lord of the hour and sign rising is really too wide. He allows a chart to be radical if Leo is rising and Mars is the Lord of the Hour. His reason is that both are hot and dry planets but his other examples refer to planets who rule the signs in the same triplicity, so Mars as Lord of the hour would 'agree' with any water sign rising and any fire sign rising. If we revisit the arguments around Triplicity rulers, it would also agree with any Earth Sign rising (as Mars is the participating ruler). That only leaves Air Signs that Mars would not agree with and one could argue that as Venus and Mars are both nocturnal planets, then Libra must be included as it's ruled by nocturnal Venus and in some charts Mercury is nocturnal so Gemini might have to be included.

In other words Lilly's definition is too vague. Any planet could be said to 'agree' with between six and nine possible rising signs. I didn't find that it actually helped though all my early horaries made use of it. Charts that don't describe the question incline me to a 'No' answer, especially if the 'No' answer is a continuation of the status quo.
 

kittymumu

Thanks Minderwiz!

I also read about the following about how to take late rising as a stricture,

More than 27 Degrees Rising. "It's not safe to give judgment, except the querent be in corresponding to the number of degrees ascending; or unless the Figure be set upon a certain time, viz. a man went away or fled at such a time precise . . ." In other words, you may safely judge a chart with late degrees rising if the time of the chart corresponds to an actual event that you are judging. Late degrees may also signify that the question has been asked too late, that conditions have changed making the question obsolete.

So if we create a chart to see how interaction between two people will be in the current month and get late rising, is it safe to judge the chart as what we ask is still happening by the time the chart was cast?