Caution - non toxic material within.
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Criticising is not debating. It is attacking someones view, not questioning it. Who are we to critisize? And, what validates another to demean someones take on a reading in the first place. You would find if difficult to find anyone more interested than I am on hearing and seeing the views and opinions of others laid out for discussion.
I still dont see what the big deal is ? Take this example;
You: "It's always been, since the beginning of its use, a tool which uses visual symbols to help readers who practice to open "their" abilities to perceive archetypal meanings. "
Me; "Sorry, tarot decks haven't been like that 'since the beginning of their use'.
I cant see the great big problem with a comment like that .... I think the issue could be, I have been around here a long time, so have a lot of others here. We have seen and been involved in lots of discussions on the origin and history of tarot ... also, the same dynamic (been around a while) applies to peoples styles of reading and where they come from.
After a while it is quiet boring to say the same things over and over, to put up the references and have a handy list of links to other threads where the history of tarot has been thrashed out. Sorry , I'm not going to do that.... I will just say, sorry thats wrong, you could ask why .... then I might be blunt and say; because it used to be card game.
The same with my reading style ... and I will add here that I am a bit confused about all this
Dont most people here read a card in a reading in context and modulation with the other cards in a reading ? I am sure I have been reading about that for years here ... and writing it ... my first ever goes with a Tarot deck that seemed to make sense to do that, all of a sudden it seems as if some people think this is a new thing and some are explaining it to me in detail as if I dont get it
I never said "Tarot is this and nothing else".
That was a response to you saying ; " The Tarot is always the subconscious working through conscious awareness at whatever level we are on. "
I answered that quiet clearly and untoxically on post 15.
I am not going to go through it all again, as it is clearly set out in my posts, the points I brought up you didnt answer did you ... you just went off on a long giant paragraph reacting to it instead of addressing the issues. anyway, I am not going to re-hash. Its up there for you to read again or ask me questions about any of it.
I have stated time and again that Tarot cards in general hold many meanings for readers and querents alike, and that the subconsciouss mind of any reader will in fact adopt the archetypes as its own, making one meaning stand out as a personal reference more than others for that reader. It's okay if you don't agree with my view here, it really doesn't bother me at all.
I think this is misunderstood, I was responding to the statement you made that " The Tarot is always " .... it isnt always that, people read it differently in different ways. As you are saying in the same paragraph.
I am not the least bit angry.
well, you are bit something ...
But, the angry way you responded is the toxicicity of pen,that I am talking about.
The more readings I see, even the ones that seem off the wall to me, offer me new perspectives I never imagined and give me a lot to add to the Tarot Files in my brain. But, I am seeing a lot of "this is wrong", and "this is the meaning",
Where are you seeing that, and where did I say that? I said you were wrong about tarot history; tarot always being used ... as I described above.
I think you are quonky because I just said simply ... no, you are wrong ...
is this better ; ' that was wrong ' ?
as if the person writing these post insist their way is the exact and only way to interpret the cards, and implying that the poster is off the mark. By all means, lets "reasonably challenge" anything you feel a desire to, for that is part of the purpose of this forum in my opinion. Sometimes it just seems that some people have found this a forum to vent their frustrations, insecurities, and anger at unsuspecting readers who are just on here trying to share and find support while learning a skill to become better readers.
You seem to be seeing a lot of 'toxicity', anger, venting, frustrations and insecurities here? yet you say you have no anger about it.
"I think all the posters above realize this", is a manipulative ploy
NO, it was a response to the line in your quote immediately above my comment. which was;
" Modifying cards can be read to mean many things by many people." - and yes, I believe the people refered to DO think that as well; that it does mean many things to many people. You seemed upset about things that I believe most of us know, they aren't the issues, of course I realise that, and that other cards in a reading change a cards meaning, and that there are many possible combinations and that different people come up with different views, sometimes they off the board when talking about 1 card that has a different meaning to them than it does to 99% of everyone else and what it says in the book about that particular deck .... other times I read a great new take on everything.
Some seem to think I am pounding my deck like a tarot preacher and saying my card meanings are the only ones that are right ! Am I really ? Like I say, some of this dialogue has been going on for years. perhaps I wrongly expect newer people to know where some of us 'oldies' are coming from.
Lets take Gregory for example
... sometimes people react about her, but I can see what she actually meant as I understand more of her context. And recently someone flew off at her a bit ... I could clearly see what she meant. She is forthright, blunt at times ...and often (dare I say it here ? ) right. I have never read her as toxic ... but I have seen people react to her as if they felt personally attacked.
-"just calling it as ""I see it". I hear your comments about "examination and evaluation", and " hard challenging questions", but I fail to see where you contribute in that way to this post. Where are the hard challenging questions?
Pos 15 ... you chose to ignore most of my points and not address them and went off in a giant long paragraph rave of IMO reaction, and not addressing them.
They might be well worth examining. Ego driven statements "You're wrong", "The card means this", "As I've explained, the cards means this", imply one is more intelligent or better capable of understanding the cards than another, and the interpretation by these authors are often "off," "in my opinion", anyway. So where does that lead the person truly desiring to share and learn? And, unless a person has stated that to be the case about themselves, that they think they are in need of solid straightening up of their opinions and views, attempts at divining the meanings of the cards, I find it distracting to have to thwart angry criticism, (tearing down another opinion), rather than seeing an "intelligent" consideration of that offered by a fellow reader. I really didn't mean to offend. But, bullying is not an intelligent action. Intelligence is kindness, and the mark of unkindness towards another sinks deep into those trying to learn a new skill, often causing them to feel inferior and even give up.
I dint think either you or the OP were beginners and the charge of 'bullying' is a bit of an overreaction ... just like your toxicity comment, which you also seem to be ignoring the questions about this - even from Gregory, who didnt see it like that (who would probably love to dong me over the head with a frypan (and for those that dont know me yet ... thats a joke folks ! ... isnt it Gregory .... Gregory ..... ? )
Like you, I also am, "just calling it as I see it". My statement about Tarot having always been a visual( aid of sorts) since the beginning of time, stands.
At risk of offending you again and being toxic I will patiently point out the issue.
You are reacting and not reading what I was actually on about, this could be my fault and the way I write, so I will try to clear this up again:
You just changed what you said previously and that was the point of my criticism and my blunt statement that you were wrong about what you said back then ... and not what you are turning it into above:
"It's always been, since the beginning of its use, a tool which uses visual symbols to help readers who practice to open "their" abilities *to perceive archetypal meanings* "
It started as a card game. There is no need * to perceive archetypal meanings* in a card game. But by changing it now to " Tarot having always been a visual( aid of sorts) since the beginning of time, stands " makes it fit in to the history as , one could say that a card game needs visual aids.
So by changing what you said you are trying to make my statement now take on a different light.
This happens quiet a bit here, and we can see how tedious and uninteresting it is to have to go back and sort out the thread of (supposed) connection and logic in a conversation ....
The only reason I am doing it now is I have sort of been portrayed as some type of tarot fascist that is toxic and spreads my toxicity to new people and beginners, a lot of stuff is assumed about me and my attitudes about cards and interpretation, and for once, I decided NOT to let my posts of the past explain my position ( with just as many good responses to my views and thanks as people being outraged (most of who seem sensitive and reactive about me )
Any research at all will lead you to understand that Tarot has been used for centuries in order to assist those who desire to bring their unconscious awareness into consciouss states through the application of visual symbols.
Of course, but not always since the inception of what we would call a tarot deck
Its simple. Everything we see becomes a symbol in some way to our unconsciouss mind, and for those who chose to become aware, to the consciouss mind as well. Dreaming while awake is in fact how I have come to experience psychic ability and most channeling. Tapping into the architypal symbols the cards present to the reader at any given time, allows for deep probing of ones life path and I have seen amazing things result from the spiritual growth of having done so for myself and thousands of others. Best wishes in the new year.
Yep, I do all that too ... you seem to think I dont know about it ?
Of course I do ... my issue is not with the peas on the plate but the whole style of dining.
A friend sent me this recently, it does some up the issue quiet well - the issue I am on about, and the issue that seems to annoy many;
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/no-youre-not-entitled-your-opinion
I realise this may not be in line with what many think.
Sorry for the long and boring 'defense post' ... I will shortly return to being brief and curt and expecting people that claim to have done years of research to be familiar with the background material.