Jodo-Camoin or CBD: Which do you prefer?

Yves Le Marseillais

I do not mean to invite you into controversy, but could you unpack this statement a bit?

Bonjour Conversus,

Numeric composition of images of Jodo Camoin deck was performed by somebody not skilled enough in this job: Philippe Tourrasse himself.

One can see that when you see lines of deck.

I.e some black dots are missing on some lines, but not only.

I don't talk about all additional details that should not had been implemented in this images such as all this "eggs", tao symbol, "fish" in Lune card, "snake" in other cards, green eyes on Imperatrice, door in XVI, strange colours and options ect.... ect.... List is way to long.

This additions are another problem.... or not if you agree with this propositions.

Generaly speaking doing a numeric composition is a creation that need too main "tool":

An artist well informed about all historical sources
A good numeric material updated

Clearly this was not the case.... for me

Salutations from Marseille City

Yves
 

Richard

Richard, thanks again for reminding me of the Jodo connection with the CBD. Do you find it particularly significant in the design of the images or in the book? I know that there is another junior-sized deck which does not have your approval.
Jodo influenced the book a little, as Yoav explains in the book, but I think any influence on the deck itself was minimal if at all. The line drawings are faithful to the Conver (except for the facial expressions, which I don't find objectionable).
 

conversus

Thanks, Yves, for your response. I have not been a fan of Jodo's "interpretations" but enjoyed the cleanness of the lines, etc. I am innocent of the deep implications of most of the little lines and the dots (aren't some of then like a purple mist in Jodo's edition) so I don't have an opinion of their merits. I found that I wanted something else.

Again thanks for your many contributions here. I am awaiting a copy of your Madenié restoration.
 

Emily

Thanks, Yves, for your response.Again thanks for your many contributions here. I am awaiting a copy of your Madenié restoration.

I don't think you will be disappointed. I received mine only the other day and the attention to detail and the quality is outstanding. Very pleased with it.
 

Cesar

I own both decks and by far I prefer the CBD, more honest and pure. The Jodo-Camoin is too pretentious for me.
I think that anyone is allowed to add or to take away from a deck to compose an original one. But to pretend that this new deck is the closest thing to the ORIGINAL TAROT DE MARSEILLE is simply out of the line.
But besides the composition, we have also the price and the quality of these decks. For instance, the Jodo-Camoin is very expensive and the general quality is not outstanding neither corresponds to the price.
In contrast, the CBD is a very well printed deck and it is also made on a very good cardstock. I like a lot the feeling of it.
Now, I cannot personally feel any link with a Conver or a Conver based deck. I think that the Conver is an overrated version of the Tarot de Marseille and not one of the best examples. But I still consider the CBD to be a great deck.
 

Richard

The Conver became less fashionable after Flornoy came out with re-creations of the Noblet and Dodal; and now that we have good facsimiles of the Madenié and Chosson, as well as new creative versions of the TdM, it has become even more fun to diss the Conver. Not to do so risks giving one the appearance of being a reactionary and a know-nothing. However, even so, the Conver remains an attractive version and continues to inspire new restorations, such as CBD, ISIS, and Meunier; and I, for one, am not even ashamed to admit that I like the Grimaud, which, according to the intelligentia, has the "wrong" colors, etc., besides being a "plagiarism."

However, I predict that the pendulum of fashionability will swing more toward the center when people begin to tire of their excursions into the new "superior" versions of the TdM.
 

Cesar

and I, for one, am not even ashamed to admit that I like the Grimaud, which, according to the intelligentia, has the "wrong" colors, etc., besides being a "plagiarism."

I had my Grimaud just in my hands while I read this... I love it.

I don't believe there are decks which are right or wrong... I think there are decks to which one connects and others to which we do not. I connect very well with the Fournier, for example. But when I received my decks from Flornoy, I saw them and put them in my shelf knowing I was never going to use them. There was not a connection with them. They are outstanding though...
 

Richard

If I may, I would like to toss another Marseille deck into the fray: Wilfried Houdoin's vibrant new Millennium Edition. It is literally a new Marseille creation. Although it does not conform totally to any particular version, it has some similarity to the Pierre Madenié (on which Houdoin has done considerable research). According to Yves, it is hoped to be completed by summer of 2016. I have the Trumps only version, and it is quite stunning.
 

Cesar

Ohhh... The deck made by Wilfried Houdouin is really a masterwork because of the deep research behind it... But also the technique used to produced the deck is very sofisticated... I am not only waiting for his conplete deck but also for his book on the minors...

I must recognize that some of the images are very difficult to process for me, as the Amoureux, and still I can see a profound reflexion sustaining each decision of the author...
 

feynrir

Just curious, so no need to answer if you don't want to. Why those two decks in particular? There exist other "clean" restorations.

By the way, Yoav created the CBD specifically to illustrate his book: Tarot - The Open Reading. He is a former student of Jodo.

Haha, of course I'll answer! It's a valid question. Sorry for the delay.

The answer is a very practical one: because I own them. :D Even more, because I find these decks particularly pleasant to handle.

I have an ISIS as well, and it remains almost too gorgeous to touch. I seldom use it.

I have been playing around with both of these decks as of late and though the Jodo-Camoin surprised me with its readability and its colors are really joyful to me (I was well aware of its problems), I do ultimately find myself looking more to the CBD as my go-to deck. It's like a dear friend.

For some reason, though, I haven't heard the praise of the Grimaud so loudly as I have now, and it makes me wish I could experience it! I also have learned a lot about non-Conver Marseille decks (though honestly I have always found myself drawn to the Conver). I want to say thank you for all the knowledgable and passionate responses :D