Jupiter and Saturn Transits

Minderwiz said:

I wasn't thinking of it in the 'lets go partying' sense but more in line with your view of a socio-political sense. However, even in that sense, Saturn is more a Hobbesian in terms of the need for society (that is for Saturn life on one's own is best but once there are several people the world threatens to war of all against all, and a life that is nasty brutish and short, unless people join together out of fear to set up a sovereign and live under his law) In Western terms Saturn is very much in the High Noon view of society.

Jupiter is more a Lockeian, where it's not fear that leads to government but a social contract for the betterment of all. A Social Contract that can be ended if the government doesn't do what the people want.

Both see government as being formed by a social contract but Saturn sees that as the outcome of fear and the government, once it is formed, has absolute power. Jupiter sees it more as a set of country gentleman forming a mutual help society and taking away the power from society's rulers if they don't deliver the goods.

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This is getting to be fun!

So, my original thought was to what extent do Saturn and Jupiter reveal the complexion of the individual's engagement with the larger social structures they encounter in the course of their "emergence," not just as a natal blueprint but as their lives unfold over time? If the answer is "none," I'm OK with it but it does seem to be a bit more nuanced than that.

Barleywine said:

This is getting to be fun!

So, my original thought was to what extent do Saturn and Jupiter reveal the complexion of the individual's engagement with the larger social structures they encounter in the course of their "emergence," not just as a natal blueprint but as their lives unfold over time? If the answer is "none," I'm OK with it but it does seem to be a bit more nuanced than that.

Click to expand...

But in this sense all planets can give some indication of a 'social' dimension. The Sun is an obvious symbol of the King/ruler and thus signifies the 'government' itself. The Sun joys in the ninth, which is the house of organised religion and indeed the House of God, so we have an indication of the Divine Right of Kings at best and an established church at least.

The Moon is a natural significator of the Queen and also the priestess or at least non-official religions.

In Hellenistic Astrology Venus signifies relationships (and it does in Modern Astrology) it also signifies the 'let's party' form of society. Mars signifies the military arm of government and also the police force and Mercury signifies learning, communication and the teaching profession (and by extension the education system).

All planets have a 'social' dimension in this sense, so again I'm not seeing Saturn and Jupiter as being the only 'social' planets.

It might be interesting to look at the political philosophies of the individual planets. Jupiter might be more a Benthamite than a Lockeian (seeking the greatest good for the greatest number). Mercury is definitely an Athenian Sophist. Venus is an Epicurean and Mars is probably too busy to actually do any political philosophy but is a militant party activist

Actually Mars' political philosophy takes a leaf out of Karl Marx'book. Whereas Marx claimed to have 'stood Hegel on his head', Mars has stood Rousseau on his head and has the slogan:

'The General Will is the will of the General.