"Do Your Will" -- What this means

Aeon418

ravenest said:
Aeon; do you think a person can be 'born' as a 'high degree' or has a certain 'level of attainment' 'hard wired' that comes out as they mature ... like a natural ability?

I'm very open to that idea. But I also think the physical component is underestimated by some people. I'm convinced that no matter how 'aware' a particular individual may be, the full unfolding and actualization of their innate gift is still 'keyed' to the maturity of the body (the temple of the spirit) and it's capacity to handle a higher level of 'energy'. Until that occurs I don't consider them "confidently ready to run." They still need to recapitulate their previous steps and learn how to walk again. Some acne riddled, greasy, 15 year old kid may indeed be 'hard wired' due to previous experiences, and have some awareness of this. But they will still probably have to wait until after their first Saturn return to begin to fully manifest and actualize their ability.

ravenest said:
The one example I am thinking of I ran into when he was about 15 ..

Is this meant to be an autobiographical scetch told in the thirdperson?

ravenest said:
great at his job ( True Will, destiny or 'Life's calling" {as he refers to it } )

This is not for your benefit, ravenest, but for others who seem to think that True Will must find expression through a particular job or career. It's great if your mundane occupation and True Will link up in that way, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Any work can be part of the True Will, even if it does no more than provide for the 'material platform.' Whether one sweeps the streets or sits in a board room on the top floor, do all for the Glory of Adonai. It's basic Karma yoga.

ravenest said:
Like I said; some never FIND it ... some eventually FIND it and some DONT NEED TO FIND it as they just seem to DO it, naturally ... the finding part isn't necessary.

Do you actually teach this? If so I can't help feeling what a disservice it is to those you say "never find it." The fact that they are actually looking is evidence that they have already found something.
 

Zephyros

Just yesterday I had a conversation with a friend who dismissed all this "New Age crap" I was in to, and said that if someone has any wisdom, they should share it clearly, as cloaking it in occult language was pretentious and served only to inflate the ego. I had a hard time expressing why I disagreed and felt like I sounded like a quack, a missionary, just silly or worse. He also said he knew I was "interested" in such things, but was surprised when I told him I "studied" them.
 

Aeon418

Just yesterday I had a conversation with a friend who dismissed all this "New Age crap" I was in to, and said that if someone has any wisdom, they should share it clearly, as cloaking it in occult language was pretentious and served only to inflate the ego. I had a hard time expressing why I disagreed and felt like I sounded like a quack, a missionary, just silly or worse. He also said he knew I was "interested" in such things, but was surprised when I told him I "studied" them.

And like most friends of this sort his 'opinion' is based on extensive research and long personal experience. Having plumbed the very depths of the subject, sifted the evidence, and viewed it from multiple angles he has come to the conclusion that it's all "new age crap." ;)

http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_03.html
 

Zephyros

And like most friends of this sort his 'opinion' is based on extensive research and long personal experience. Having plumbed the very depths of the subject, sifted the evidence, and viewed it from multiple angles he has come to the conclusion that it's all "new age crap." ;)

http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_03.html

I wonder if you always know what to say in "real life" as well. :) But yes, these things, when tried to be explained "on one leg" seem to sound so trite and childish. Seems like I've got some 777 to memorize :D
 

ravenest

I'm very open to that idea. But I also think the physical component is underestimated by some people. I'm convinced that no matter how 'aware' a particular individual may be, the full unfolding and actualization of their innate gift is still 'keyed' to the maturity of the body (the temple of the spirit) and it's capacity to handle a higher level of 'energy'. Until that occurs I don't consider them "confidently ready to run." They still need to recapitulate their previous steps and learn how to walk again. Some acne riddled, greasy, 15 year old kid may indeed be 'hard wired' due to previous experiences, and have some awareness of this. But they will still probably have to wait until after their first Saturn return to begin to fully manifest and actualize their ability.

Yes that is a good point; especially about the maturity of the Saturn return.

Is this meant to be an autobiographical scetch told in the thirdperson?

Autobiographical ? ? Heavens no! It was a student I taught in year 10 (who wasn't greasy or had acne ... sheesh man! ) .. actually he taught me a thing or two. My autobiographical sketch would involve years of stumbling in the dark, moving towards faint glimmerings that shift and change and after 35 years starting to grasp it, 10 years of getting a firm hold ... several incidents of the grip slipping ... etc. etc.

This is not for your benefit, ravenest, but for others who seem to think that True Will must find expression through a particular job or career. It's great if your mundane occupation and True Will link up in that way, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Any work can be part of the True Will, even if it does no more than provide for the 'material platform.' Whether one sweeps the streets or sits in a board room on the top floor, do all for the Glory of Adonai. It's basic Karma yoga.

You're right - it doesn't need THAT expression ... it just needs expression ( the DO part of Do what thou wilt). Washing the old people seemed more like Karma Yoga than the office job :laugh: .... one might even find joy and contentment in the Karma Yoga and fully realise that that work is not the Great Work (even though it may all be related in some ways).

But to have the GW and the life's job / income the same is like hitting the triple score in scrabble ... not all expressions of True Will are things that normally generate an income and I would never suggest that someone does not follow their True Will because they wont or might not get a job or income out of it.

Do you actually teach this? If so I can't help feeling what a disservice it is to those you say "never find it." The fact that they are actually looking is evidence that they have already found something.

No I don't teach that some never find their will. I did write that though so I should qualify it ... what I meant was, I have observed it , and the qualification is what THEY themselves were expressing, not what I was judging; "I don't know why I am here ... what's the point of all this .... it seems useless and pointless ... there is no meaning to life ... I just want to end it all ... " Followed by a drug overdose or suicide.

That MAY have been their true will ... to experience and express that ... but it certainly was not confirmed by them. They were the ones that were saying they would never find it.

What I did teach (to year 10 and many others) and do still 'teach' is EVERY man and EVERY woman is a star and hence ALL have a True Will and purpose in the expression of that Will.

Actually I did have a kid that was saying he would never find it, but he was saying he could never get any type of job, or finish school, or know what he wanted ... he was just useless (according to him ... or the embedded programme ... he told me what his father used to say to him ; shocking!). He also thought he wouldn't be able to disarm me when I attacked him with a wooden sword ... should have seen the look on his face when he finally did it and threw me across the gym mats and ended up with the sword himself :laugh:

I wonder if he ever ended up 'shiho-nargaing' his dad across the lounge room one day ? })
 

ravenest

Just yesterday I had a conversation with a friend who dismissed all this "New Age crap" I was in to, and said that if someone has any wisdom, they should share it clearly, as cloaking it in occult language was pretentious and served only to inflate the ego. I had a hard time expressing why I disagreed and felt like I sounded like a quack, a missionary, just silly or worse. He also said he knew I was "interested" in such things, but was surprised when I told him I "studied" them.

Confusing friend ... if he thinks it is all crap why does he want you to share it?

Conversely; is he saying that the reason you wont share it and keep it occulted is because it is crap? = a case of the King's (no) clothes?

I get less 'friends' as I get older ... old 'friends' dissipate, new friends arrive ... the overall total diminishes but the ones I have now - we work together on a great plane and I am still learning things from interaction and study with them.
 

treedog

For a long time I've said that I'm here to Witness. It's not a passive thing for me, but an active engaging with all the senses (however many there may be). But it's not about "doing" in the world as we tend to think of it. And it has to do with recording what I experience, but oddly not in the poetry I write or any other means of outward expression. It's sort of like I'm going to give my report later, elsewhen; or I am giving my report (this witnessing) elsewhere, right now.

I suppose that that is linked with my Will in some way, but it feels a bit different. I spoke with a friend about this business of Will the other day and she talked about making little stacks of stones. Just because the stones were there, and we were there, and at that moment no one else was there to stack them exactly as we would. Little stacks of stones that in the next moment would topple. And sensing the correctness of that little act is somehow huge, all encompassing. It is to flow from the Creative World.
 

ravenest

For a long time I've said that I'm here to Witness. It's not a passive thing for me, but an active engaging with all the senses (however many there may be). But it's not about "doing" in the world as we tend to think of it. And it has to do with recording what I experience, but oddly not in the poetry I write or any other means of outward expression. It's sort of like I'm going to give my report later, elsewhen; or I am giving my report (this witnessing) elsewhere, right now.

Oh I definitely feel that one! I call it ; to be the senses of 'Deity'. Sensory extensions of the 'Universal' consciousness. Unto Nu ... as the blessing goes.

This may be the case for all sensory 'creatures'. But I also see an aspect that relates to individual expression.
 

treedog

Oh I definitely feel that one! I call it ; to be the senses of 'Deity'. Sensory extensions of the 'Universal' consciousness. Unto Nu ... as the blessing goes.

I like hearing that you relate. In one sense it doesn't sound like it would be terribly unique, and yet I've not shared that very often.

"Unto Nu..." Where does that come from?
 

ravenest

Paraphrase from the BoL Ch 1 ; 'Unto me' .

I use Unto Nu as a little blessing or dedication. Indigenous teachers taught me to always say a special word (that means thankyou for allowing me to experience that; event, sight, understanding, incarnation, existence, the whole of one's life etc.).

But it isn't just for me that experience; I am the far buoy of the yacht race; the point of furthest vision; the roots of the Tree of Life; the creation and end product of 'deity' it is my responsibility to observe. enjoy, feel, experience and 'be' but also it is my responsibility to send that experience and information back ... give it back to Nuit.

Do it, send it, experience it, communicate it, share it.

'Space mum' gets upset if we don't send a letter home telling how we are going and what we are experiencing. :joke:

[ NOTE: Spacemum is a product of a Cancerian with strong Neptune influences :laugh: and may not have appropriate Thelemic validity. ]