The Meanings of the Minors: Who First Created Them?

jmd

It would be useful for me to have another look at the referenced versions of the Steele sermon... and so here reply as to my thoughts on the matter, which I will need to temper with later reflections.

Though the Steele sermon certainly orders the appelations, and appears to number them, there is some reason to assume that perhaps some may be inaccurate. After all, the sermon was not written in support, but rather against card play. Still, one would assume that the author did as much as possible to present the sequence with some knowledge or he may otherwise have been taken as an ignoramus with regards to that which he sought to diminish.

The positioning of the Fool is therein clearly lastly listed. That it is called 'nulla' does not indicate a numbering of zero, but of a value that adds no score in counting. Depending on the actual text, it may also indicate that 'nothing comes after' - here indicating that it is the final of the sequence, but with no numerical value (perhaps, as you and I also suggest, due to a desired totalling of 231 when the twenty-two cards' values are added).

With regards to your earlier questions, neither the Sola Busca nor the Etteilla depict the important symbolism of the Atouts of the Tarot - hence my statement that neither of these are 'truely' Tarot. They certainly each seem to have some connection - and in the case of the Etteilla, a clear historical connection.

In contradistinction, both the Waite/Colman-Smith and the Crowley/Harris, despite inversions of cards, addition of the actual numbering of the Fool, or picturesque pips, seek to emulate in various ways the central qualities of Tarot.
 

kwaw

jmd said:
Though the Steele sermon certainly orders the appelations, and appears to number them, there is some reason to assume that perhaps some may be inaccurate. After all, the sermon was not written in support, but rather against card play. Still, one would assume that the author did as much as possible to present the sequence with some knowledge or he may otherwise have been taken as an ignoramus with regards to that which he sought to diminish.

Though it is listed last in the sequence, it is unambiguously numbered zero in the online transcription. I believe, from what I have read on this list and elsewhere, Kaplan has said it is numbered 22, however part of the relevant fool section in his reproduction of the sermon is illegible [I have not seen the actual Kaplan text and reproduction myself, so am taking this description on trust, please anyone with the book correct me if wrong]. I wonder if, the actual number in his copy of the sermon being illegible, he has made the error of assuming the number 22 because of its position in the list. As to the Sermone being inaccurate, why do you say that? I don't recall anyone ever mentioning that it was inaccurate when they believed [probably with Kaplan as source] that the fool was numbered 22 in the sermone, why does it suddenly become inaccurate when it appears that Kaplan may have made an error and it is in actual fact numbered zero? [I say may because it may not be Kaplan that has made an error, but the other sources I have referenced elsewhere].

Kwaw
 

jmd

My second sentence (which you quote) explains why the order may be inaccurate, and likewise why it may be so. This is not in fact an argument against it being twenty-second (which the sermon clearly shows), but rather that any part or parts may have been written in such a manner that may also have inaccuracies - though the listing suggests that the author sought to carefully follow what was probably around, including the Fou having no value.
 

Cerulean

A sidenote on JMD's posting/playing cards

Some standard, modern meanings for playing cards include:


Hearts (Cups):
Ace: love, friendship, the home and distinct happiness
King: fair haired man, affectionate, generous, impetuous, honest man, hasty in decisions, not to be relied upon for advice
Queen: fair haired woman, trustworthy, faithful loving woman, gentle & pleasing
Jack: fair haired young person, good friend, a close (or long lost) friend
10: good fortune, happiness, good news, happiness in family
9: the 'wish card', dreams and desires will come true
8: invitations, but also partings, parties or celebrations
7: someone is unreliable, broken promises by friends
6: unexpected good fortune, generosity, imposed upon by untrustworthy people
5: jealousy, inability to make a decision
4: changes, travel or postponements, marriage delayed, bachelor or spinster
3: be cautious an impulsive decision threatens good ones
2: success by careful thought, friendship

Spades (Swords):
Ace: conflicts, a difficult love affair, misfortune, bad news, tidings of death
King: dark haired man, ambitious, usually successful, his ambition overrides everything else
Queen: dark haired woman, seductive or unscrupulous, treachery, betrayal, malice, widow
Jack: dark haired young man, well meaning but lazy person, hindrance in all work
10: worry, grief, imprisonment, negation of all good
9: bad luck, can mean delays or quarrels, all kinds of unhappiness in all things
8: disappointments and opposition, be cautious, friends might turn out to be rivals
7: a warning against loss of friendship, quarrels with friends, bad things
6: an improvement in the person's life, use perseverance to make your plans work
5: anxiety, setbacks, interferences, success in business, harmony in partners
4: jealousy, business troubles, sickness, minor misfortunes delay project
3: partings due to faithlessness, lourney, bad things in love or marriage
2: scandal, gossip, danger of deceit, change, removal, loss of home, division

Diamonds (Coins):
Ace: money, a ring, important message, or a valuable gift
King: fair haired man, stubborn and powerful, vengeful, dangerous when crossed.
Queen: fair haired woman, flirt, sophisticated, witty, interferes in other's affairs
Jack: a relative, someone not really reliable, selfish or jealous, bad news
10: journey, changes usually bringing wealth, money as objective, maybe not result
9: opportunities and surprises, usually financial, taste for adventure, travel, changes
8: late marriage or new relationship, unexpected money, a journey
7: a gift, lies, rumours, unlucky gambler, criticism
6: a reconciliation, warning against a second marriage, early marriage; early end.
5: successful meetings, especially business, unexpected news; may be business success
4: an inheritance, changes for the better, unhappiness from bad friends, betrayal
3: legal or domestic battles, quarrels, domestic disagreements
2: a great love affair increases in importance, opposed by friends

Clubs (Wands):
Ace: harmony, property, achievements, love, peace of mind, professional success
King: dark haired man, honest, open, generous and faithful
Queen: dark haired woman, strong, helpful, attractive, nice woman, inclined to be temperamental
Jack: a reliable friend, sincere but impatient
10: unexpected money, good luck or a gift, unexpected good fortune with bad loss
9: a new romance, disputes with friends, bad quarrels
8: opposition, chance of recklessness, someone will use money not his own
7: prosperity, chance of romantic interference, good fortune, beware of opposite sex
6: business success, profitable business in partnership
5: help from a friend or spouse, marriage with a wealthy woman
4: bad change of fortune, failure of project due to friends
3: good marriage or partnership, long engagement, and then a fast wedding
2: disappointment and opposition from friends or associates

If I look at JMD's post of meanings taken from the P. circa 1750 historical document, I can see 'related' meanings in modern playing card cartomancy.

Even in the 10 of cups, knowing the expense of new roof tiles in the modern day and how it takes wealth to have a snug one to safeguard food, clothing and possessions--I can divine a related meaning of family and home prosperity both in playing cards and tarot! And I have seen the meanings of a 'fair woman or kindly, gentle and pleasing' in playing cards for the Queen of Hearts and some suggested meanings for tarot's Queen of Cups when one checks out old-fashioned resources.

I am thinking there is a link to playing card cartomancy, but I don't know how far back that goes...I hope this is pertinent, as playing cards have been mentioned as well.


Regards,

Cerulean
 

jmd

The cartomantic meanings go at least back to Eteilla - his Tarot cartomantic work, as many here are already aware, appears to be an extension from his non-tarot cartomantic tomes.

If there is a (written) earlier connection, I am not aware of it at the time of this posting.