[Abrac]

Originally Posted by ldiddy

I'm curious about your ultimate goal.

This comes a little late but I was thinking about Ididdy's question and had a few thoughts.

When I first started posting material on Waite's Fellowship of the Rosy Cross grade system and the Great Symbols I was hoping to generate interest and start some conversations; that was my main goal starting out. I thought there would be more interest and discussion, but for the most part nothing has materialized. I decided I would keep posting in order to 1) make the material more available and accessible and 2) hoping that eventually it would spark something; but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Not minimizing the input from those who have participated; what discussion has taken place has been rewarding, but a sustained interest is lacking. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water. . .

I'll probably still post on the Great Symbols and their relationship to the Waite-Smith if the occasion seems right but I've given up the hope that others might find this subject as fascinating as I do—or at least interesting enough to type something and click Submit.

[parsival]

Sorry to hear that Abrac . Personally I find anything about Waite to be fascinating and I've really enjoyed reading your posts.

[Queen of Disks]

Originally Posted by Abrac

This comes a little late but I was thinking about Ididdy's question and had a few thoughts.

When I first started posting material on Waite's Fellowship of the Rosy Cross grade system and the Great Symbols I was hoping to generate interest and start some conversations; that was my main goal starting out. I thought there would be more interest and discussion, but for the most part nothing has materialized. I decided I would keep posting in order to 1) make the material more available and accessible and 2) hoping that eventually it would spark something; but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Not minimizing the input from those who have participated; what discussion has taken place has been rewarding, but a sustained interest is lacking. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water. . .

I'll probably still post on the Great Symbols and their relationship to the Waite-Smith if the occasion seems right but I've given up the hope that others might find this subject as fascinating as I do—or at least interesting enough to type something and click Submit.

I like your threads and read them all the time, I just don't have much to add to them. Other then you are doing a great job.

[Abrac]

Positive feedback is gratifying but what would be even more gratifying is some lively debate that leads to a better understanding of Waite's symbolism. I don't need people to agree with me; I'd just like to compare ideas with anyone without an agenda who wants to take an honest look at Waite's images.

[Gofannon]

Hi Abrac, I've been away from this forum for a while to take care of some of life's issues. Now our Southern Hemisphere winter is here, and seasonal depression takes it's hold, my mind will take it's annual inward turn and I should be around a little more. IMHO the information you post on the Tarot is the best I have found on the internet. My research is somewhat broad and scattered, so when I awoke this morning contemplating the Temperance card, this was my first port of call to find some deeper understanding.

What prompted me was this clip of the research of John Grigsby into the alignments of Stonehenge, and the Dagda myth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da6BzTYfNDg&t=1052s

So we have this symbolism of Orion coupling with the womb of the celestial cow goddess (the Southern Cross). There are various theories about the early alphabets being representations of the constellations, and there is a strong possibility that the Southern Cross relates to the Hebrew letter Tau. Tau relates to Path 32 and the Universe. This made me wonder if the Dagda myth is represented on the TOL as the central pillar. We have Orion at Kether, and the High Priestess on Path 13 with her Mehet-Weret/Hathor cow symbolism. The Universe is definitely a womb (and the universe is definitely a womb).

The piece of the puzzle I need to fit in is Temperance, and also whether this alignment fits symbolically with the TOL. My current thinking is that Temperance is symbolic of sexual coupling, the blending of Chockmah and Binah? You've also noted above that she is another form of the Shekinah.

This also ties in with the Christ myth. As above, so below.

From this perspective, reading your PDF made perfect sense.

[Abrac]

One thing that's always intrigued me about the triangle is its orange color. Its shape suggests fire, which I believe it is to a certain extent. In the Adeptus Minor ritual the Candidate's robe is orange. Waite says:

"The colours of the robes worn by the Three Celebrants represent: Solar Orange—the Sun of Righteousness in Christ, the splendour of mind, when illuminated by a certain grade of consciousness in GOD;" [sic]

[parsival]

The triangle is more yellow than orange in my pack. According to P.F. Case " the element Air and the Fiery Life- Breath are represented by a clear, pale shade of yellow" ( 'The Tarot '). Not sure how this relates to Temperance though . Case's version of Temperance shows a seven - pointed star on the angel's breast. According to Case "the angel is Michael, angel of the sun , and ruler of the South ( Key 19 ,The Sun ).Michael is also specially connected with Tiphareth on the Tree of Life "etc. (loc cit ).

[Abrac]

I was going by the Pam A from kenji's blog: http://muzendo.jp/blog/?p=19

Compared to the yellow chalices it looks orange.

[Gofannon]

In my deck the triangle and the chalices are yellow. The same yellow is found throughout the pack. It might just come down to the printing process and the colours they have available. Does Smith's original artwork survive? It would be interesting to see the colours that actually came off her brush.

[Abrac]

I found an image that may be of interest where the Septenary symbol is concerned. It's from Theatre of Terrestrial Astronomy, attributed to Edward Kelley. The version I have is found in The Alchemical Writings of Edward Kelley, 1893 edition, edited by Waite. The Latin words in the image indicate colors. I've attached a color version I found at Adam McLean's Alchemy Website; there's a slideshow that has all the images from the series.







The text from the thirteenth chapter—from which the image is taken—is also interesting. The chapter is entitled "Of the Perfect Red Elixir." It seems to be describing a series of colors attributed to stages of alchemical transformation, starting with black and ending with red; white, yellow and orange being intermediated phases.

"Xiphilinus and the rest of the philosophers agree in this, that the white colour must precede the red. As you can have no red colour where the substance has not first been white, so the black cannot become orange unless it first become white. In like manner, the Rosary says that nothing can become gold that has not first been silver. He who knows how to convert gold into silver, also knows how to convert silver into gold. Gold, to become silver, must first be corrupted and made black, and there is no method of becoming yellow except by way of white; in the same way the white must become red by way of yellow. Heat, acting on moisture, causes blackness; acting on dryness, especially if it be continued carefully and unceasingly, there is developed true whiteness; out of white comes yellow, and out of yellow a permanent and tinging ruby colour."