LOTR in the Mayor Arcana

lupo138 said:

"Aragorn and Arwen" a story that Jackson blew up to it´s ultimate limits

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I think he over-used the appendix. There, it appears the conversations between Arwen and Aragorn, and Aragorn with Elrond. I thank Jackson, anyways, to have "rescued" Arwen and Eowyn and developed more this characters, I know this characters are a little diferent in the Book and some Tolkien fans will disagree with me, but first I never liked Eowyn nor Arwen in the book, and Eowyn was a more true woman in the film than in the book. Dont know, personal apreciation.

Also, we need to continue with the missing trumps. I think next week Im coming with some fresh ideas.

O.k. I couldn't keep quiet any longer...

I've been lurking on this thread since it first began, but only now wanna jump in. My caveat -- I read part of the series as a teen, but crapped out on Two Towers. Now, I've seen the movies, and I'm rereading the series, and just finished "Fellowship" yesterday, so I'm really rusty on my specifics, names, etc. although I know the complete story well enough to play along.


0 Frodo -- Definitely. I don't know why the LOTR deck chose Gollum.

I Gandalf -- Nuff said.

II Galadriel -- I also see G. as the HP.

III Goldberry -- Probably the best I can come up with.

IV Aragorn -- Yeah. I think so too.

V Fangorn (?) or Tom (?) -- I have to say, I am so tempted to put Tom Bombadil in this spot, only because I see him as being extremely wise. However, since his knowledge is more experiential and his own, not for passing along to others, I guess I can't really justify Tom here.

Lovers -- HEY! Wouldn't it be interseting to see Tom and Goldberry as the Lovers? In their garden, undisturbed from the "real" world, they live in devotion to each other and their mutual life together. Hmmmm.

Chariot -- don't know....

Strength -- Eowyn, perhaps?

Hermit -- Oh geez, it occurs to me yet again, this might be an ideal place for Tom B. But perhaps since he shares his life with Goldberry that isn't right either. Or, is it Gollum? He IS the ultimate Hermit, but I'm not sure his outlook is introspective enough to be the Hermit.

Wheel: The One Ring -- This one, I just don't know. The LOTR deck chose it as the Wheel as well, but to me the willpower of the ring, as well as it's essentially "evil" nature, doesn't do justice to the Wheel. I see the Wheel as being more impersonal. But I can't come up with a better idea for it, unless it is Galadriel's mirror.

Judgement, or Justice? -- Council at Rivendell. I think this would serve Justice well, as a such a weighty decision is being made, regarding the nature of Justice and Good for Middle Earth.

Perhaps, Judgement can be seen as a moment on Mount Doom, before Frodo, Sam (and Gollum!) destroy the Ring. That is the ultimate moment when they each must reckon for themselves, and be judged for how they chose to act/react. Perhaps it is the moment that Frodo looses his finger, and Gollum dies attaining his precious.

Hanged Man -- Another I don't know right away. Maybe Treebeard (isn't that the Ent's name whom Pippin and Merry end up with?) The Ents want to stay uninvolved in the problems of men and willfully withdraw themselves (until necessary) from Middle Earth's dealings.

Death -- I agree with the LOTR deck here, I don't know how Death can better be personified in this story then when Gandalf falls to the Balrog, only to be reborn as Gandalf the White.

Temperance : Hee hee, I had the funniest idea here. What if Legolas and Gimli are the opposites that combine themselves to become something different?

Devil: The eye of Sauron, or.... hmm I just had another thought -- what if the One Ring were the Devil? It lies to you, tempts you, and definitely creates bonds that are obsessional and terribly difficult to free yourself from.

Last thought, Saruman as the Devil -- creating Orcs that he controls, all to further his own goal of ultimate "power"?

Tower : What about Orthanc? (sp) I know Isengard would better convey the destruction that the card often depicts, but if I'm remembering right, Saruman's Orthanc tower might work here.

Star: What about the Even Star, that gives light in the darkness, gift to Frodo from Galadriel? Significant enough?

Moon -- Any ideas, kids?

Sun -- " "

The World -- Middle Earth? Or perhaps Frodo's final journey after the Ring is destroyed (on that boat across the sea, you know what I'm getting at). He, as the Fool, has completed one journey and readies himself to begin a new one, wiser now.

THAT WAS FUN! Thank for starting this thread, Eowyn!

Thank You.

I like very much the idea of the Death

I still considere that Fangorn is a very good Hierofant and maybe the Hermit could be Bilbo when he goes away (and he is staying with the elves)

I liked a lot using the mount of Doom as the judg. and the counsil as the justice, very much, and your idea for the world its good too. I agree with your opinion about The One Ring, because to me it doenst make any sence as The Wheel, but it could be a good evil. We have several good evils.

Once someone posted that Theoden could be a good hanged man, and I think was talking about the period of when King Theoden was under the spells and influence of Saruman. BUT this doesnt has the posibilitie of being concius in the inside, altough not being able for action. But it works a lot.

well Tom Bombadil as the Hanged Man has his advantages as well - being secluded, hidden from the world, not interfering, waiting what will happen, being not really interested in the outcome....

lupo138 said:

well Tom Bombadil as the Hanged Man has his advantages as well - being secluded, hidden from the world, not interfering, waiting what will happen, being not really interested in the outcome....

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thats the same behavior that Fangorn has at the beggining. But I thought that the Hanged needed a little bit of suffering in the middle? I mean, Tom is happy the way he lives, and he is SO OLD that he waits to see how things develope. He is his own master. The hanged has that thing about not being able to act, or react, and Tom is very able, and he chooses not to participate because the 3rd age is not his time, and he understand he fate of the ring this way, in my opinion.

the we see the Hanged Man different: to me he is not a helpless victim, but voluntarily hanging there. He is only half bound and could get free any time. In some decks the Hanged Man is depicted as Odin, hanging himself to a tree and thus creating the runes. I do not think that Odin would be forced to hang either.
Apart from that Treebeard and Tom Bombadil are of similar age, both having made their first steps in Middle Earth in the First Age. The difference is that Tom is a (minor) god, Fangorn a "ordinary" being. But differences with regard to that were not so remarkable in the First Age

Re: O.k. I couldn't keep quiet any longer...

Alissa said:

Hanged Man -- Another I don't know right away. Maybe Treebeard (isn't that the Ent's name whom Pippin and Merry end up with?) The Ents want to stay uninvolved in the problems of men and willfully withdraw themselves (until necessary) from Middle Earth's dealings..

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I think Frodo might be a good canidate for the Hanged Man. He sacrificed himself and sanity in order to destroy the ring. It ultimately destroyed him and he lived a lonely life afterwards being sick on the Ring Destroyed Anniversary and never married or had kids. I think he sort of sacrificed his livelyhood for the good of Middle Earth! hehe

Devil: The eye of Sauron, or.... hmm I just had another thought -- what if the One Ring were the Devil? It lies to you, tempts you, and definitely creates bonds that are obsessional and terribly difficult to free yourself from.

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I like the One Ring as the devil, or the eye of Sauron. Same thing basically but Sauron is the one controlling everything evil there so he is really the source of evil.

Last thought, Saruman as the Devil -- creating Orcs that he controls, all to further his own goal of ultimate "power"?

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I see Sauraman as more the chained man than the devil. He is doing Sauron's bidding and under his control and stuff.

Moon -- Any ideas, kids?

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Maybe Galadriel's mirror. It shows an illusion of what might happen. And the soft glow from it can seem like the moon or moonlight.

Good ideas Alissa!

Thirteen's basics

I was reading Thirteen's tarot basics about The Hanged and The Moon.

"The Hanged Man, in similar fashion, is a card about suspension, not life or death. This is a time of trial or meditation, selflessness, sacrifice, prophecy. The Querent stops resisting; instead he makes himself vulnerable, sacrifices his position or opposition, and in doing so, gains illumination. Answers that eluded him come clear, solutions to problems are found. He sees the world differently, has almost mystical insights. This card can also imply a time when everything just stands still, a time of rest and reflection before moving on"

I think Frodo its OK as the fool, specially in the way Jackson shows him, at the begining of his journey. Also, Frodo and The Fool are those who make the journay. But this behaviour (hanged man) remember me the other Frodo, more tired, like when he was alone with Sam. For example: when he got captured by the orcs and he is alone in the tower. In that period of his journey he is sacrifiyng himself in order of a higher propouse, and also he doesnt have any other option but to continue. I really dont see Tom as the hanged.

About the moon, "This is a card that has to do with sleep, and so with both dreams and nightmares. It is a scary card in that it warns that there might be hidden enemies, tricks and falsehoods. But it should also be remembered that this is a card of great creativity, of powerful magic, primal feelings and intuition. The Querent who gets this card should be warned that they may be going through a time of emotional and mental trial"

I think Galadriel's mirror can be a very good option.

I want to think a little bit now in happier trumps, because Im thinking too much and looking to hard for dark simbols stuff.
I wanna find some good Sun candidates

I was thinking that The Fellowship Of The Ring could de the Chariot. I came to this after reading 13's basics about VII which kind of put some order in my mind about this one that I was missing.

So he have this far (all them posibilities):

0 Frodo
I Gandalf
II Galadriel
III Galadriel, Goldberry, Yavanna, Melian
IV Aragorn
V Fangorn
VI Arwen+Aragorn; Beren + Luthien
VII Fellowship
VIII Ëowyn
IX Bilbo, Tom, Fangorn(treebeard)
X The One Ring
XI Counsil of Rivendel
XII Frodo, Theoden
XIII Gandalf's fall
XIV Legolas+Gimli
XV Sauron, Mordor, Melkor, The One Ring
XVI Saruman/Isengard fall
XVII Eowyn, Elves Star (Galadriel's gift to Frodo)
XVIII Galadriel's mirror
XIX -the sun- the scouring of the shire? it includes the childbirths...
XX Counsil of Rivendel, Mount of Doom
XXI The Gray Havens

Hope no one is missing, and if I did pm-me and ill edit it

Eowyn said:

XIX -the sun- the scouring of the shire? it includes the childbirths...

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I see the Sun as child-like joy, forgetting your troubles. I don't really remember when the fellowship experienced it but maybe at one of the reunions they had? (not sure if it's at the end) Or maybe it should be when Frodo and Sam were having fun before the journey. (The Sun sometimes has two children standing together and the hobbits could look childlike. ) I can only think of Bilbo's birthday party though. I can't remember any truly joyful parts. Or maybe when Frodo finally got to Rivendell to rest, but that wasn't exactly joyful. Hmmm difficult!

Eowyn great job! This thread is so fun! hehe (I'm such a nerd)
There is another site playing around with Middle Earth for tarot, you might want to check it out. I've never read the other books so I don't really know much about it. The only bad thing is though that there aren't any illustrated pictures and it seems that the person creating or playing around with it, isn't going to illustrate it.

Here is the idea of Middle Earth Tarot
Here's the main site: Archetypical
It also has a Harry Potter tarot. A couple cards are illustrated. This Harry Potter Tarot is the best one I've seen so far and it's amazing since she admits not knowing much about tarot.