Court card "roles"

Hi folks,

I'm leaving my focus of the Majors for a while, since I have started doing actual readings with this deck, and all of the ones I've made have been very full of court cards. That has made me wonder several times - how do the roles of the court characters differ when you have the prince-princess-knight-queen order, as opposed to the "usual" page-knight-queen-king order.

This is the first deck I'm working with that has another order of the courts, and I've got used to working with them as roles or character, such as the page is a child (regardless of age, of course) trying to understand and SEE the world around, the knight takes action, the queen mothers and the king fathers the issue at hand. These roles are independent of suits, but are of course then applied THROUGH the suits. I don't think I'm alone in working with courts like this, so I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at here. How would I get to know the characters in these court cards, there is a difference, I just can't put my finger on it and explain it (even to myself...!) - hoping for assistance by my more experienced class-mates...!

Light and love,
Jenny

I have actually taken an elemental approach to the courts overall. In working on the Queen of Cups and Queen of Wands for the Second Aeclectic Collaborative Tarot project I have also found an incredible connection between these two Queens and elements of various Majors. I will explain this in further detail in a later post when I have time to make a coherent example of what I am saying *LOL*. So I guess what I am saying is that I see these cards as a combination of archetypes and elements not necessarily as mother, father, etc.

As for the order of them, I see this as a matriarchal order to traditional courts. I do not see their meanings changing so much, but the Queens do seem a bit stronger and independent than in other decks. The Knights are similar to Kings but are a bit more impulsive, The Pricesses are a are not as impulsive as a traditional Knight (not King) but are more active than a page, and then finally the Prince seems quite earthy to me. Make sense?

court roles changing/numerical correspondances

Hello Jewel and Jenny Li...and all others
my style of reading is very intuitive and after this info comes thru I begin a more analytical type of information gathering and a final blending of the two...I am always having a dialogue with the cards and their meanings and their reasons for appearing as they do...I have only been using this deck for a short time and sense a difference as you have too...

I think these cards as court cards are more complete...whole... fully developed and realized...and less stereotypical or shallow...flat and static portrayals of the elemental...or familial...or character roles often associated with them...they are also more dynamic in themselves and dynamic as to blending energies associated with the other court suits and roles...their vivid energy is a synergy and integration...not the more rigid structure and separation I see for these roles in other decks...

I had never experienced this before but have somewhat limited experience with other decks... enough though to realize this difference...is this because as a Cosmic Tribe humanity is evolving and changing...integrating and blending energies and becomming less differienciated more complete...for example...the roles of women in society and family and as female potiential are changing... and the more matriarcial order/power is apparent though not yet fully realized...look what this has done to male roles as well...this deck is so very current and descriptive of the modern exploration into each others roles and the integration of our full potential as human cosmic tribe...

the nudity also seems to play a role as we shed our clothes we release our true selves and are freer to express the more underlying and interconnected universal energies of being...this blending and integrating may be the completeness I am sensing...a mirroring of our wholeness and interconnection with all that is...

as to the numerical correspondances... I like to add this understanding to my readings as well...I use both ways of interpretation as do you...with elements and familial /character roles...but have had some questions as to assigning number values because of the matriarcal positioning...queen 13 or 14...knight...14 or 13...princess 11 or 12...prince 12 or 11...there do seem to be correspondances for using either...so I have not completely chosen how I will number the court...would like to hear of anyone elses choices on the matter and love to hear of others thoughts and experiences...thanks...this is such fun...

Re: court roles changing/numerical correspondances

RAVENAL said:

I think these cards as court cards are more complete...whole... fully developed and realized...and less stereotypical or shallow...flat and static portrayals of the elemental...or familial...or character roles often associated with them...they are also more dynamic in themselves and dynamic as to blending energies associated with the other court suits and roles...their vivid energy is a synergy and integration...not the more rigid structure and separation I see for these roles in other decks...

I had never experienced this before but have somewhat limited experience with other decks... enough though to realize this difference...is this because as a Cosmic Tribe humanity is evolving and changing...integrating and blending energies and becomming less differienciated more complete...for example...the roles of women in society and family and as female potiential are changing... and the more matriarcial order/power is apparent though not yet fully realized...look what this has done to male roles as well...this deck is so very current and descriptive of the modern exploration into each others roles and the integration of our full potential as human cosmic tribe...

Click to expand...

I totally agree with you!!! I think that is perhaps why I see the blending of pure archetypes (Majors) and elements in these cards .... not traditional roles. Beautifully put!

As for the numerical correspondence for the courts I have never used this so I am at a loss. I would love to learn more about it from you.

court cards and numerical correspondances...

Hello...is anyone still here...

Jewel in answer to number correlation with court cards I needed a time to observe and use this with the Cosmic Tribe before I knew which was which for me...now...maybe...sofar...this seems right...

Well it seems the Queen is still a 13 to me...and all these numerological matchings...the feminine 13 moon cycle...and the switch depending upon whose looking of this being lucky or unlucky...upheaval and groundbreaking...regeneration and change...it has this history and so do we as women...for me I view 13 as a very powerful number but one that is centered in a larger circle of energys...natural cycles...still needing the focus and grounding of something other...be that whatever...working from within...as number 1 a leader and original...as 3 creating/birthing...all cycles mystical...it reduces to 4...an aspect of the more directed and structure oriented and outward building...stability...needing patience and foundations...a little more masculine perspective...the queens in CT certainly have all this...as stated earlier they seem more united in their natures and very essence than other queens...more real...accomplished but still so very much feminine and so numbered at 13...and trump 13...as Death...females are so very knowledgable of and bound to birth and death... endings/beginnings...abrupt changing patterns...eternal wisdom...rebirth...so like Queens...13...a lucky number to me...

The 14 is male to me in its very essence...both as independant 1...straight directed and focused and outward expressive...male energy independant...and the 4...work...planning...all as said above for 4...then reduced to 5...this numerical correspondance says...versatile...active...
changing...and unchanging...eternal... doing...being...
discovering...exploring...testing...outward motion yet
from a structured and stable foundational position as the 1 and 4 are...but now needing/gaining more experience...all essentially more male to me...so the Knights are 14...challenges...change and luck...questing...patterned with trump 14...patience and self control...necessary understanding...

The princes are 12 then and reduced to 3 a number of self expression...a responce...having something of the masculine and the feminine...and very cyclic...youth...freshness...
creativity...needing again that circle and perspective of being connected still and the balance of 2 needed...cooperation and conception...still growing...learning but the focus...the number 1 is on eventual independence...and the parallel to trump 12...seeking wisdom...special insight and personal growth...a number of sacrifice...giving something up or someone giving something up for you...caution and forewarned perspective needed...

The princess as number 11 is another female number for me doorway...threshold and crossing into potiential energy...open...
receptive but can be shut...not yet at the maturity of the queen...but a messenger and communicator as the portal from one thing to another and reduced to 2...twinned...dual...like balance is...necessary pairing...cooperation...reflective...inner directed...introspective...dreams and sensitivity...as 1 alone
...beginnings..related to trump 11...be it strength or justice...females overcomming obstacles...fairness...yet can be a number of conflict and opposition...even treachery...duality again...

If you use numbers and numerology and fix your interpretations of these forces assigned to the court cards this is another layer for further understanding as...cyclical...progressive...processes playing out...in these number forms which are the pure essence...underlying energy...simplified and evolutionary...