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The Delorme being a Lismon Type II deck at least allows us to narrow the return of the Type 1 to a range c. 1880-1890 with the H. Pussey (c1880-1890) and Grimaud (1890). The BM copy of a H. Pussey Type I (c.1890-1904) seems to be a different (later?) printing to that in the BnF, with slightly different colouring as you noted (but that might to be expected if they were hand-coloured?) and the booklet by a different printer.* Without further information the safest thing to say is that c.1890 sees the return of the Type 1 by two different publishers, H. Pussey (c.1880-1890) and B. P. Grimaud (1890).

*Edited to add -- also the backs of the BnF H. Pussey are different to those of the H. Pussey owned by Sumada, so I think we can safely say that there were at least two different editions of the Type 1 produced by H. Pussey.

*Edited to add again - the backs of Sumada's H. Pussey are the same as the BnF Grimaud !?

Also the titles of some of the reversed positions (e.g., the elements, the virtues) are printed in upright position -- Sumada's H. Pussey seems to be the same as the BnF Grimaud...

(The back of Sumada's Grimaud is totally different to both the BnF Pussey and Grimaud).

I haven't got time to check it out now as I'm off out, but from a brief look at the Pussey booklet at the BnF, I suspect it doesn't match up with the deck...

Kwaw
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H. Pussey & B. P. Grimaud seem to have been connected with each other. Two decks at BnF list them together:

[Jeu de cartes au portrait officiel français à deux têtes]
[jeu de cartes, estampe]
Material description : 47 cartes à jouer : gravure en taille-douce coloriée au pochoir ; 8,1 x 5,3 cm
Note : Technique de l'image : estampe. - eau-forte
Note : Coins arrondis. - Dos tarotés à motifs géométriques bleus et effet de moire
Sources : Collection Georges Marteau, léguée en 1916. Cartes à jouer. État sommaire / par J. Guibert, Paris, 1937, 711
Edition : Paris : Ancienne fabrique Pussey-Lebourgeois : B. P. Grimaud , [1877]
Ancien possesseur : Georges Marteau (1858-1916)

La Sibylle des Salons
[jeu de cartes, estampe]
Material description : 1 jeu de 52 cartes, 1 carte blanche, 1 enveloppe : lithographie coloriée au pochoir ; 11,3 x 7,7 cm
Note : Technique de l'image : estampe. - lithographie. - couleurs (épreuve coloriée)
Note : Coins carrés. - Dos tarotés à quadrillage écossais en rose et bleu. - Il est communément admis que ces cartes, signées "Mansion", pseudonyme d'André Léon Larue, sont en fait dues à son élève, Grandville. - Timbre fiscal sur l'As de Trèfle. - Enveloppe chromolithographiée
Sources : Collection Georges Marteau, léguée en 1916. Cartes à jouer. État sommaire / par J. Guibert, Paris, 1937, 817-820
Sources : Cinq siècles de cartes à jouer en France : [exposition], Paris, Bibliothèque nationale, septembre-octobre 1963 / catalogue réd. par Jean-Pierre Seguin et Cécile de Jandin, Paris, 1963, 378
Edition : Paris : H. Pussey : Chartier, Grimaud et Boudin , [entre 1890 et 1900]
Ancien possesseur : Georges Marteau (1858-1916)
Dessinateur du modèle : Grandville (1803-1847)
Dessinateur prétendu : André Léon Larue (1785-1834?)

Le Sibylle des salons is advertised in the booklet that comes with the H. Pussy Etteilla. The booklet is not for the Etteilla Type I however, but for Le Petit Cartomancien.

(Grimaud also published a booklet for a deck of 36 cards called Le Petit Cartomancien ou Petit le Mormand.)
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I think H. Pussey, as a seller and publisher of toys & games, used Grimaud as the manufacturer of its cards.

Another of the card decks advertised in the booklet that comes with the H. Pussey is Le Nouveau Grand Jeu de la Main, which was published by H. Pussey c.1880-1890.

An edition was also published by Grimaud in 1890 (there is a copy on view at BnF)

However, an edition of this (c.1900?), has both B. P. Grimaud on the box, and H. Pussey as vendor (of Toys & Games).

So I think possibly the H. Pussey was the first, published by him but manufactured by Grimaud; and then later Grimaud published their own version?



B. P. Grimaud at the top, and in the red ribbon at the bottom Jeux et Jouets H.PUSSEY M.ROLLIN succ.

The above was sold at auction, the seller's description:

L'Avenir dévoilé par le Nouveau Grand Jeu Chiromancique », par Madame Adèle MOREAU (élève de Mlle LE NORMAND, fabrication B.P.GRIMAUD, contenant 56 cartes et 7 couleurs avec la notice et l'étui d'origine. Vendu par la Ste Jeux et Jouets H.PUSSEY (M.ROLLIN succ.)(circa 1900)

"The Future unveiled by the New Great Palmistry Game" by Mrs. Adele MOREAU (student of Miss LE NORMAND, manufacture by B. P. GRIMAUD, containing 56 cards in 7 colors with manual and original case. Sold by Games & Toys H.PUSSEY (M.ROLLIN succ.) (circa 1900)

Another of those advertised in the accompanying booklet to his Etteilla I is Le Petit Oracle des Dames. There is a copy of a Le Petit Oracle des Dames that was published by Pussey (the name H. Pussey is printed on the court cards) in the British Museum.
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La Sybille des Salons was published by H. Pussey c.1848 or earlier, long before the firm of Grimaud existed, however later editions, c.1890-1900 are published as by 'H. Pussey : Chartier, Grimaud et Boudin'. Here is a card from an 1848 edition by Pussey:



Title: La Sybille des Salons, JEU COMPLET DE 52 CARTES LITHOGRAPHIEES numérotées, signées en bas "Mansion" mais effectivement par Grandville.
Author: GRANDVILLE (1803-1847)
Publisher: Paris: H. Pussey, 1848

A deck of the same name is later (c.1890-1910) published by "Chartier, Grimaud et Boudin".

I am not sure how old the firm of H. Pussey was, but the Petit Oracle des Dames in the British Museum is dated as c.1820.

So it seems to me, that many of the card games originally published by H. Pussey, were later adapted and published by Grimaud. So I suspect that the H. Pussey Etteilla I was first, then the Grimaud?
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Another of the decks advertised in the H. Pussey LWB is:

Grand Jeu de société: pratiques secrètes de Mlle Le Normand:

Which was also published by H. Pussey.

There is an 1868 edition of it at the BnF here:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv...planchecontact



I haven't checked but I am pretty sure I have seen this deck, or one very similar to it, at the British Museum too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
Another of the decks advertised in the H. Pussey LWB is:

Grand Jeu de société: pratiques secrètes de Mlle Le Normand:

Which was also published by H. Pussey.

There is an 1868 edition of it at the BnF here:

I haven't checked but I am pretty sure I have seen this deck, or one very similar to it, at the British Museum too.
It is similar, not the same but both clearly based on the same sources.
Livre du Grand Oracle by Gustave Arnoult, 1858:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/researc...tteilla&page=1
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Kwaw wrote
Quote:
Without further information the safest thing to say is that c.1890 sees the return of the Type 1 by two different publishers, H. Pussey (c.1880-1890) and B. P. Grimaud (1890).
Kwaw wrote
Quote:
So it seems to me, that many of the card games originally published by H. Pussey, were later adapted and published by Grimaud. So I suspect that the H. Pussey Etteilla I was first, then the Grimaud?
It seems to me that the safest thing to say is that Pussey and Grimaud are both documented as putting out the Grand Etteilla I, in much the same form as the original (excepting only a sunburst on card 1 and clothing on the devils of card 14), as hand-colored engravings sometime before the introduction of the tax stamp of April 1890. In the case of Grimaud, that would mean sometime between 1851 and 1890. [Added later:] For Pussey, thanks to your detective work since you wrote the first quote above, it could have been even earlier.

Kaplan in vol. 2, p. 403 (described p. 401) has pictures of a Grand Etteilla (owned then by him) exactly like the ones at the BnF except for not having the double numbers in cards 13-17. He dates it as "mid to late nineteenth century", but before the tax-stamp. The publisher is unknown. He says (p. 101) it is a combination of lithography plus stencil for the coloring. It is possible that one of our publishers, or someone else, put out such an edition, without the double numbers, before the ones at the BnF.

On the other hand we have found no documentary evidence of any "mid-nineteenth century" Grand Etteilla in the museum databases. Also, the original purchasers, d'Allemagne for the Pussey and Georges Marteau for the Grimaud, were both serious collectors, if rather young in 1890 (27 and 32). They would likely have bought earlier editions if they could. But it is also possible that neither of the collectors thought, or were able, to get an earlier printing of what they had, or an earlier edition (without the double numbers).

It may be of interest that the 1969 and current decks put out under the Grimaud label follow the coloring of Pussey's at the BnF (except for the green body of water on card 3) more than that of their own 1890 production there. Except for that, Pussey's is rather obviously superior. Was Pussey bought out by Grimaud?

Kaplan also has pictures of a German Grand Etteilla deck he says is "mid-nineteenth century" (p. 401), printed by lithography and hand colored. There is no sunburst, the little devils are nude, and the double numbers are there. The reversed keywords are upright at the bottom of the cards. The reversed for card 1 is "Der Forschende" (the Search); all keywords are in German and in script. This might be the deck by Hisler that DDD give as 1793. Or perhaps a reprint by someone.
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A usefull information from a special edition of the magazine "As de Tréfle" 10/98.
This special edition of the magazine was also the catalogue of the exposition "Il était une fois B.P. GRIMAUD" from 1998 in the Musée francais de la carte à jouer in Issy Les Moulineaux, (page 14).
According to this source (a quite knowledgeable one) the Grand Etteilla comes from Lequart et Mignot and not from Pussey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by As de trèfle
Entre 1890-1891, la maison Grimaud enrichit considérablement son catalogue de divers jeux divinatoires grâce au rachat des maisons Pussey puis Lequart et Mignot. À la première, il emprunte la Sybille des Salons, le jeu de la Main et le Grand jeu de Mlle Lenormand; et à la seconde, Le Destin Antique, le Grand et le Petit Etteilla, le Petit oracle des Dames et le Petit Cartomancien.
Translation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by As de Trèfle - Translation by coredil
Between 1890-1891, the company Grimaud increased considerably her catalogue with several divinatory games thanks to the purchase of the companies Pussey then Lequart et Mignot. From the first (company), she borrows the Sybille des Salons, the Jeu de la main and the Grand jeu de Mlle Lenormand; and from the second (company), Le Destin Antique, the Grand and the Petit Etteilla, the Petit oracle des Dames and the Petit Cartomancien.
Somewhere else in the catalogue is mentioned that Pussey was bought by Grimaud in 1890 and Lequart and Mignot in 1891.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post

Title: La Sybille des Salons, JEU COMPLET DE 52 CARTES LITHOGRAPHIEES numérotées, signées en bas "Mansion" mais effectivement par Grandville.
Author: GRANDVILLE (1803-1847)
Publisher: Paris: H. Pussey, 1848

A deck of the same name is later (c.1890-1910) published by "Chartier, Grimaud et Boudin".
However, according to a catalogue for the sale of the collection of Claude Guiard (expert consultant Depaulis), the legal rights to La Sybille des Salons was registered in Paris in May 1827, which were later picked up by other publishers, Gaudais (active 1875 to 1880), then Pussey (1880-1890)
and finally by Grimaud at the end of the nineteenth century. (The dating of the Pussey Salon des Dames to 1848 would then seem to be an error?)

If Grimaud picked up the legal rights for this deck from Pussey, possibly he did so for other decks of the Pussey Cat-alogue too -- sorry for the pun

Kwaw

edited to add: Thanks coredil -- posted this before I say your post. Suspected that there might have been some sort of takeover of Pussey by Grimaud - nice to have confirmation.

The BnF entry does mention Lequart et Mignot:

[Jeu de tarot divinatoire dit "Grand Etteilla" ou "tarot égyptien"] : [jeu de cartes, estampe] Éditeur : Grimaud et Chartier (Paris) Éditeur : ancienne fabrique Lequart et Mignot (Paris) Date d'édition : 1890 Sujet : Jeux divinatoires Type : image fixe,estampe Langue : zxx Format : 1 jeu de 78 cartes : gravure à l'eau-forte coloriée au pochoir avec rehauts d'aquarelle ; 11,8 x 6,6 cm

That means that prior to Grimaud at least two publishers were publishing the 'Grand Etteilla', Pussey and Lequart et Mignot? Or perhaps Grimaud continued to publish some decks under the Pussey brand name for a while? (Perhaps as a retail division of Toys and Games, as on the box of the Chiromancy cards in previous post.)

However, the BnF has a L&M petit Etteilla by Grimaud dated 1860?

Titre : [Jeu de cartomancie dit "Petit Etteilla"] : [jeu de cartes, estampe]
Éditeur : Grimaud et Chartier (Paris)
Éditeur : ancienne fabrique Lequart et Mignot (Paris)
Date d'édition : 1860

The date could be wrong, or if correct, perhaps Lequart et Mignot, and Hussey, used Grimaud as a printer for some of their decks, prior to being taken over by him? Re: Pussey & Grimaud, there is also for example the :

[Jeu de cartes au portrait officiel français à deux têtes]
Edition : Paris : Ancienne fabrique Pussey-Lebourgeois : B. P. Grimaud , [1877]

So it would seem that, prior to their takeover, Hussey and L&M were working jointly with Grimaud on some projects; perhaps Grimaud took over the rights c.1890/91 for decks the firm previously printed for the other two publishers...

The Bulletin de la papeterie, September 1890:

RENSEGNEMENTS COMMERICAUX
Cessions de Fonds

Lequart et Mignot (Societe) a Grimard et Chartier (Societe)fabrique de cartes a jouer et autres, rue Saint-Maur, 74.

Business Information / Transfer of Funds
Lequart and Mignot (Society) to Grimard and Chartier (Society), maker of cards, games and others, rue Saint-Maur, 74.

There is also a small (16p) booklet about 'the damages caused to Lequart & Mignot by the expropriation of their factory' published in February 1890.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
DDD notes p.113, that one of Etteilla's work was translated 1793. It was published in Leipzig by Baumgärtner and it contained the card-illustrations in hand-colored manner.
Quote:
1793. German translation of Cours theorique et pratique du livre de Thot, in Leipzig. (DDD p. 100). Also in 1793, per DDD’s dating (p. 113), an Etteilla deck with German keywords, elements, and days of creation, in script at top and bottom. Hand colored. The bottom keywords on the first 12 cards are printed right-side up. Card One has “Etteilla” and “Forschung” (Search) as keywords. Otherwise the cards are identical to the original 1789 deck, including the astrological signs and the extra numbers on cards 13-17. The publisher in Leipzig is Baumgärtner. For colored pictures of the first page, as well as the deck, which appears to have accompanied the book, see http://www.tarotforum.net/editpost.p...post&p=2802242.) (Kaplan, vol. 2 p. 401, says erroneously that the designs are like the Lismon decks. Pictures of the cards are on his p. 402.) These cards are issued again in 1857 (DDD p. 114).
No illustrations, but the book at link below (Oekonomische encyklopädie, 1845) appears to describe the illustrations of the cards (all 78) on pages 312-323 that came with the Theoretischer und praktischer Unterricht über das Buch Thot, 1793. (It is in German, perhaps Huck could help with that?)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...201793&f=false

For example:

Die Karte Nummer 1. hat die Ueberschrift: Etteilla, und die Unterschrift: der Forschende. Figur stellt ein blaues Wolfengemisch vor, mit hellgelben klaren Wolfe. Oben an der linken ist das gewöhnliche Zeichen des Widders. Auf Karte ist die Nummer unten nochmals, jedoch umgekehrt.

google translation:

The card number 1. Has the caption: Etteilla, and the signature: the researchers (?).* The figure presents a blue wolf mixture (?), with clear pale yellow Wolf. (?).* Above on the left is the usual sign of Aries. On the card again is the number on the bottom, but reversed.

Kwaw
* I presume 'searcher' or 'researcher' is the German translation here for questioner, or consultant.
** Duh, I think it should be Wolke (cloud), not Wolf ! A mix of blue clouds with a pale yellow clear of clouds.
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