Intensive Deck Study Support Lounge - Part V

Nope that makes perfect sense to me!

I have to say though, the foundations are the same. It's a question of how far down the track you want to take it, using your metaphor. Then again, I have not studied Thelema or the GD to any but the most superficial level. I do know there is no escaping the neo-platonist, alchemy and many other things in the TdM which are taken, as I understand it, to the 'n'th degree in later Tarot.

That's what I have been liking about the Blake. The references are there but Blake and his thought was pre-GD. Though the 17th and 18th c. had certainly laid the groundwork!

zan_chan said:

So Im turning to TdM to get away from all that for a while and to relish some actual history books, not this sort of "we don't know where it came from so let's say Egypt" tarot history.

Thus by "simplification" I meant in terms of not dealing with GD, not any slight towards the tremendous amount of hardcore learning there is to do to better understand the Marseille.

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The thing is (and I hope I'm not opening up a can of worms here), the TdM as far as I'm aware was used for gaming. There MAY be some deeper significance to the trumps (based on Christian themes), but as we don't truly know what that is, all divinatory systems and techniques applied to the deck are purely speculative. The suits are just a bog-standard playing card deck. There is no system to be discovered about the deck. There is nothing deep to understand. The GD created an elaborate system in the absence of anything concrete to build upon.

If you're following the intuitive approach and just going by the imagery, fair enough. But I honestly think that if you're looking for some deeper meaning, analysis and hardcore learning (as a way to learn some truth or any system in the deck), I fear you may be disappointed...

This is just my opinion, but it is what scuppered my IDS with the TdM. My intepretation of the IDS is to study a deck in order to learn the ins and outs of each card. To find meaning within each one and to learn the system. For me, the more I learnt about the gaming history behind the deck (which is basically what it was created for), the more disappointed I felt. The GD may have added a whole load of esoteric mumbo-jumbo to it, but at least they gave it a greater depth and a system to learn.

If you're interested in learning the historical basis to the deck, then sure, it'll hold your interest for a while. But if you get bored of the academic side (which is largely speculative anyway), you might end-up feeling that the deck is just a useful divinatory tool, but nothing else.

Hmm, well, I feel a little uncomfortable about personally contributing much more to the discussion of anything vs. anything because the the whole point is that I don't know anything. If others want to come and agree or not with any of this I'll be happy to read it.

Thing is that there's got to be something to TdM or else people like de Gebelin and Papus and Etteila, etc. would never have found the inspiration to discover/create all the rest of what tarot has become.

And if not, then for better or worse, I'll have gotten that far, right?

Earlier I was talking to someone about cake, but pie seems a better analogy now. Pie crust is a bit bland by itself. It's a thin layer, but it serves as the base for all the filling on top. If you don't like the crust, you're more than welcome to just eat the filling, but then you won't have eaten pie-- just filling.

I love filling, but I want pie

zan_chan said:

Earlier I was talking to someone about cake, but pie seems a better analogy now. Pie crust is a bit bland by itself. It's a thin layer, but it serves as the base for all the filling on top. If you don't like the crust, you're more than welcome to just eat the filling, but then you won't have eaten pie-- just filling.

I love filling, but I want pie

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LOL

I've re-read my post and I hope that it didn't come across as criticism or a put down of the TdM (or those who use them).

I love the TdM very much, and often reach for it just to get back to basics. The Thoth and RWS fulfill my need for academia, the TdM gets me back to essentials. At the moment I'm in a study mood so I've opted for the Thoth. But the TdM is always a breath of fresh air when it all gets too heavy.

I'd been searching for a name for my deck but not very successfully. Usually when I shuffle for a reading I start '(Name of deck) Tarot tell me true what I need to know from you' taken from Christine Jette's book Shadow Work. Recently, but I can't say when, I've been saying 'Shining Woman tell me ...'

WonderGuy said:

well, i have taken a page out of zan's book and started calling my deck Pamela, she likes it! (i asked her and pulled the Empress, i took that as a very nurturing "yes")

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So I asked my deck and pulled The Gift of Trees. In this card there is a tree magician with a bird-like beak but, when I looked at it, for a few moments, it seemed to be a happy mouth saying 'yay'. I took it as a yes. I know, it seems obvious, but at my age I need things spelled out Shining Woman is her name.

The TdM discussions are interesting. One day ...

I like a good pastry...!

Ok the naming the decks has intrigued me! So I took the bait...for the first one I grabbed a old crochet bag I had done not even remembering what I had put in it and found my very first home-made deck! (Photos cropped then laminated over index cards) laughingly I ased if it was a girl..stuck hand in grabbed first card that "tingled" got a "Empress" after many more questions and a apology from me for ignoring her these last several years I now lovingly pull "Primrose" to me to gently shuffle and start a spread......

Now the hard part, to do the rest of them! Oye Vey! laughing, Kim

That sounds like a pretty good naming system, Kim. Lucky to get the Empress on a gender question, though. What gender is, like, the 10 of swords? (Rachel Pollack would probably say male, eh? )

My Noblet seems to be leaning towards Gene. The French name "Jean" annoys me. I speak passable French, but anytime I do, it always comes out sounding like a Saturday Night Live sketch. "Jean" just sounds so gutteral haha. So maybe Gene.

Unfortunately, due to that evil, evil DaisyDragonfly, my brain keeps needing to have the name "Nobie" pushed away....

Maybe I should name my Bohemian Gothic "Bogey." But that puts me in mind of a noir of a different type.

ncefafn said:

Maybe I should name my Bohemian Gothic "Bogey." But that puts me in mind of a noir of a different type.

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I like that. Ironic noir