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Symbolism in the RWS 6 of Cups

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
For others; think of white light as the source, the 'elaborations' are different colours coming out of a prism. Look closely, one cant really say where one colour changes into another.

But you can tell yellow from indigo cant you? We can say, in one way, they are all originate from the one source, that is the white light...
Yeah, was thinking about the old rainbow analogy myself )

Not read every post in thread, but notice that some have linked the mitten to masonry (??) -- I doubt it, but we may note that the Saltire*, among other things, is a symbol of the Scottish Rite in freemasonry. (I tend to think allusions to masonry in the deck are overstated, and often-times somewhat tenuous -- but there is some, the B&J of the priestesses pillars being the most obvious example, and this may be another.)

edited to add: Saltire, the tumbling cross, 'X', on the shield.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Perhaps he was referring to the enveloping shell, the negative veils, Love as the driving force, etc. Or maybe even some other doctrine I'm not familiar with.
Waite is referring to the Holy Grail, as per his book, published the same year as the deck.

Quote:
What I find somewhat missing from the conversation is what is actually going on there.
Yes, I noticed that not a single person responded to the list of meanings for the Six of Cups that Waite probably drew on when conceptualizing the deck.

Quote:
Pertaining to the decan I still find it a somewhat negative card, whether or not I confused myself or not. Sun in Scorpio still seems like stunted growth to me, or else pleasure that has an end point (valid, of course, if rather vulgar). But does the card show the kabbalistic/astrological equation in any way, or is there something else at work entirely?
There are no similarities between the RWS 6 of Cups and the decan images from the Picatrix, Ibn Ezra or Agrippa. Nor does Waite seem to make much of the planet in the sign (Sun in Scorpio) in this or most of the other cards. His focus seems to be much more on Six as an expression of Tiphareth in Briah. It is clear from comparing his meanings with those of prior commentators, that his strongest Minor Arcana influences are Etteilla, Chambers, and the GD divinatory meanings (without much attention to correspondences except for element/world and sephiroth). Cups also corresponds to his retelling of De Boron's Joseph of Arimathea story that he believed to be the earliest Grail myth.

You can, of course, apply GD and Thoth conceptions to the RWS deck but in some cases you will then have to ignore Waite's emphasis on his conception of the "Secret Tradition," about which he wrote a great many books.
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Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
No matter what I say about a range of experience, or my obvious knowledge and use of traditional Tarot meanings - the fact that I don't read *exclusively* "by the book" gives people license to declare that I advocate an "anything goes" attitude - as if one has to cling to the extreme. It's this kind of either/or attitude that I find silly. Read what Pamela Colman Smith said about looking at an image!
I didnt read that as he declared what you think ... I read it as ; he came away with the impression - just sayin .

... and I think you meant 'does not give people license ' ? - otherwise I am totally again
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Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach ;
of art (be they painted, written or what not) often take on a life of their own.


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Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
Amen. This should be written large!
And that life is dependant on the viewer not the painting animating.

Like in 'The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari ' at the end (as the distraught patient moves towards recovery) , his 'disgusting pornographic pictures' are seen as a series of inkblots.

Again, I put forward my idea, that card meanings are there to keep us 'in the field' of the meaning of the cards, so we (collectively) dont see pedophiles, or 'sunshine lollipops and roses' everywhere, or where they are not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Only to the Adept.
Are you sure the level of 'mere' adept can do that ?

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Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post

Pertaining to the decan I still find it a somewhat negative card, whether or not I confused myself or not.
... you are in fine form today !

I suppose discussing this point about the decan in detail is off topic too ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post

Sun in Scorpio still seems like stunted growth to me, or else pleasure that has an end point (valid, of course, if rather vulgar). But does the card show the kabbalistic/astrological equation in any way, or is there something else at work entirely? Could the larger figure be the Sun giving Love to Scorpio and the latter accepting it? Is that the "pleasure" that is derived here? Do the five-petaled flowers signify Geburah in some way, and if so, why? The mitten has been discussed as Masonic, what is the significance there?

.
Rubbish on the Masonic mitten ! I know of no such thing! But I cant demonstrate that either as that is off topic.

This is becoming like the whole issue of tarot itself, say what you want, anything can mean anything else, but get down to the real detailed philosophical nitty gritty ... and not allowed, irrelevant, coming from the 'ego' / intellect .... or off topic of the coversation.

Make it up as you go along ..... get a pat on the head.

Whatever.


la la la la laarrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
Yeah, was thinking about the old rainbow analogy myself )

Not read every post in thread, but notice that some have linked the mitten to masonry -- in which case (apologies if it had been mentioned), we can note that the Saltire, among other things, is a symbol of the Scottish Rite in freemasonry. (I tend to think allusions to masonry in the deck are overstated, and often-times somewhat tenuous -- but there is some, the B&J of the priestesses pillars being the most obvious example, and this may be another.)
Okay this IS about the image / symbols on the card ....

please show me where there is a mitten with a Saltire on it. or a link between mitten and Saltire.

Possibly I have lost the plot again and I am thinking NOT what you mean ???

The Freemasonry symbol thing in the RW tarot has been laid to rest I think (not sure if you saw the article on a study on it done by a learned Freemason that I linked to a tread in this forum ? ) ... with the one exception of the J and B on the pillars ( which, I can also apparently deny as I can see them as Joan Baez {in another thread that appears } - so, no Masonic symbolism at all
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Okay this IS about the image / symbols on the card ....

please show me where there is a mitten with a Saltire on it. or a link between mitten and Saltire.

Possibly I have lost the plot again and I am thinking NOT what you mean ???
Not sure about the 'mitten' (I have edited it and made that clearer), and didn't say the saltire was on the mitten... but the reference to masonry led me to the possibility of the Saltire (St. Andrew's Cross) on the shield being a reference to such -- but it has a lot of symbolism attached to it outside of (Scottish Rite) masonry of course -- number 10, a solar symbol, Scottish origin myths, traditions for their flag (the king having seen the cross of St. Andrew in the sun/sky before a victorious battle -- a Scottish reworking of the old Constantine prophesy), etc, etc,

Quote:
The Freemasonry symbol thing in the RW tarot has been laid to rest I think (not sure if you saw the article on a study on it done by a learned Freemason that I linked to a tread in this forum ? ) ... with the one exception of the J and B on the pillars ( which, I can also apparently deny as I can see them as Joan Baez {in another thread that appears } - so, no Masonic symbolism at all
Yes I am aware of it and have linked to it in past threads, and agree allusions to masonry have been over-stressed and tenuous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
the reference to masonry led me to the possibility of the Saltire (St. Andrew's Cross) on the shield being a reference to such -- but it has a lot of symbolism attached to it outside of (Scottish Rite) masonry of course -- number 10, a solar symbol, Scottish origin myths, traditions for their flag (the king having seen the cross of St. Andrew in the sun/sky before a victorious battle -- a Scottish reworking of the old Constantine prophesy), etc, etc,
The most direct reference of the St. Andrew's cross is to St. Andrew being martyred on it! It is a sign of pain and suffering.

He declared he was not worthy to be martyred on the same style cross as Christ, so the Roman authorities placed him on an x-shaped cross, and tied rather than nailed him to it. So it stands for martyrdom and unworthiness (or humility). After that it became a sign of deliverance and Christianity triumphant - the martyred shall prevail through their commitment to Christ, as it appeared in this light in visions to Constantine and King Angus MacFergus II of Scotland (which flag bears this design).

It can also be seen as a cross-roads with all that implies.
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and the Saltire is a white cross on a blue background

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.u...one300-450.gif

and the cross on the 4 of cups 'shield' is clearly not - although blue does appear on the card , so I assume if it is supposed to be blue it would be .... and it isnt that the card is b & w or the printer ran out of blue ... or .... (insert any other excuse here ) .

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...16fc9c427c.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
and the Saltire is a white cross on a blue background
In heraldry a Saltire is a cross in the form of an X, also called a St. Andrew's Cross because that is the shape of the cross he is said to have been martyred upon; also called a crux decccusata in Christian imagery. In heraldry objects crossed in an X fashion are also called Saltire, for example swords saltire. It was a common symbol of Christian emperors from the fourth century (for example used on coins).

It is a white Saltire on blue field on the Scottish and other flags; a crimson St. Andrew's cross on white field on the flag of Alabama.

'X' is also of course an ancient abbreviation for Christ (from the greek letter Chi).
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