Is the Tarot Pre-Christian?

[KariRoad]

Originally Posted by prudence

One last thought/question before I go; How does Tarot, by its very nature, prove itself to be pre-Christian?

Sorry if I seem to have crashed in on something uninvited (Historical Research) and I suppose if I haven't been already, I'll soon be put right (by MJH, as you imply). Anyway, let me answer your question please, as you were kind enough to ask: TAROT sort of says it all. Word origins have a life of their own, quite distinct from, basically, interpretative suggestions.

Footprints cease to be footsteps when someone else is wearing the shoes

[KariRoad]

Originally Posted by Rosanne

ROTFL KariRoad! I dearly wish you could give strong argument to that statement= Tarot proves itself to be pre-Christian by it's very nature..
That would put it's conception in Italy back by some 1400 years or so.
I might add that the Pope's horse would have indeed been blessed and considered a Catholic Horse- just as everyone can recognise the Popemobile today.

In 2002, Pope John Paul II requested that the media stop referring to the car as the Papamobile, saying that the term is undignified. So I guess we we should name it "Undignified" ~Poco Dignitoso. Hi Ho!

Sort of like referring to Tarot as Tarocchi. Tarocchi is Italian, Tarot is not. Davvero!

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by KariRoad

In 2002, Pope John Paul II requested that the media stop referring to the car as the Papamobile, saying that the term is undignified. So I guess we we should name it "Undignified" ~Poco Dignitoso. Hi Ho!

Like that!

Sort of like referring to Tarot as Tarocchi.[/I] Tarocchi is Italian, Tarot is not. Davvero!

Well it seems that Tarot is accepted as the French equivalent of Tarocchi. There is, as there is not any known fact about the root word, much discussion.
Torah, Hebrew meaning the law/ Taru, Sanskrit, deck of cards/ Ta-Rosh, Egyptian meaning the royal way/ Rota, Latin meaning wheel/ Taro River in Lombardy/ Taruq meaning Pathways/ tarh meaning to discard... just to name a few.

When I first started here, I held the belief that the Phoenician Abjad could explain Tarot 22, quite well. There is of course early evidence of Pagan Gods been used in a deck- but that was a theme- not a reflection of Tarot having pre-Christian beginnings.

I am happy to be convinced otherwise of course.
~Rosanne

[Bernice]

KariRoad: Sorry if I seem to have crashed in on something uninvited (Historical Research).......

Correction! You were specifically invited to open a thread here in order to discuss your idea/claim that the tarot is pre-christian. Welcome.

Can you tell us why you say this?


Bee

[GRAFLIX1]

How could anyone possibly entertain the though that a system, so richly cloaked in symbology, evolve from the simple mindset of those claiming the world as flat?

It really isn't so hard to ascertain that the true origins lie in the "Land of the Black" - and its surrounds.

The ancient Priests, the Gnostics and even the Alchemist, have all hid their knowledge within symbology.

Do not concentrate upon the pointing finger, or you'll miss all the heavenly glory!

[Bernice]

GRAFLIX1: How could anyone possibly entertain the though that a system, so richly cloaked in symbology, evolve from the simple mindset of those claiming the world as flat?

I very much doubt the mindset of the 14th cen. Italians claimed the world was flat! Take a look at the World card.


Please explain exactly how your post supports - or denies - the idea that the tarot is pre-christian in origin.


Bee.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by GRAFLIX1

How could anyone possibly entertain the though that a system, so richly cloaked in symbology, evolve from the simple mindset of those claiming the world as flat?

The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper's History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science (1874) and Andrew Dickson White's History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the conflict thesis for their own purpose ...
By the 14th Century, Europeans did not think the earth was flat.
(Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians)

It really isn't so hard to ascertain that the true origins lie in the "Land of the Black" - and its surrounds.

Egypt gave much to Europe- but not Tarot.

The ancient Priests, the Gnostics and even the Alchemist, have all hid their knowledge within symbology.

True.

Do not concentrate upon the pointing finger, or you'll miss all the heavenly glory!

Huh???
~Rosanne

[GRAFLIX1]

Many ancient cultures revered the constellation of Orion, as that of the all omnipotent God.

They also observed a phenomenon called "the procession of the equinoxes" and in doing so, acknowledged its central position moving in the vicinity of Orion.

I tell you this because in ancient Greek tales, it was told that the "center" was moved by a "Fool" and hence the Fool card may not be so foolish, after all.

I support my theory, in part, that the cards predate the Fourteenth Century, as expressed within may various posts, to which you may readily view.

I particularly like my working concept of that the Fool - Magician - High Priestess and Empress.

I also like the concept of the three fates as being: High Priestess, Empress and Judgment (Maat).

[Bernice]

Graflix1:I particularly like my working concept of that the Fool - Magician - High Priestess and Empress.

These are the names and (possible) attributes of the later esoteric tarots that were superimposed over the original tarot images. This is the Historical Research forum, we are discusing the original images not the Rider-waite or Thoth.


Bee.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by GRAFLIX1

Many ancient cultures revered the constellation of Orion, as that of the all omnipotent God.

True and the Egyptians actually thought the world a disk floating on a disk of Ocean water. So really they were the flat Earth people you speak of, not medieval Italians.

I support my theory, in part, that the cards predate the Fourteenth Century, as expressed within may various posts, to which you may readily view.

Just one example would suffice of a deck of cards that was Tarot/Tarocchi
predating the 14th Century- or the sequence in any manuscript that could be recognised as the same. Double dare you!

I particularly like my working concept of that the Fool - Magician - High Priestess and Empress.

I also like the concept of the three fates as being: High Priestess, Empress and Judgment (Maat).

I like those examples too as a concept- that does not make Tarot pre-Christian- that appears as you said a 'concept' Crowley had a concept- Arthur Waite had a concept- etc etc. I have a Phoenician concept that I drew 22 cards for- does not make my concept right for the origins of Tarot.
~Rosanne