Kickstarter: How to use it

bogiesan

Anyone get a deck from a Kickstarter campaign before? How long does the whole process usually take?

Creating any product for mass distribution is fraught with problems and technical issues that Kickstarter cannot help you with.

But, two things.
a. Kickstarter is well known but it is only one crowd-funding site.
b. There are dozens of crowd-funding how-to sites and crowd-sourced project development blogs.
 

aimeedanger

Anyone can be anyone

I have been studying tarot since I wrote my senior thesis on the tarot, historical imagery of women, and the impact of archetypes on society. That led me to study the allegorical roots of the tarot. I have always been a bit of a loner about it though, never talking with people. I came on here to connect with people and I guess I went about introducing myself the wrong way.
 

Debra

aimeedanger, I don't see you have anything to apologize for :heart: and wish you good luck with your project.

Rip offs? This is not to say it's impossible. Some people deliberately deceive, and sometimes they intend to finish a project and don't. But I guess I don't see a dog-eat-dog tarot world. These art patronage sites don't seem the most effective or efficient for real rip-off artists.

I look at it this way. There are about a gazillion sales and trades on the trading threads here at AT--I've been involved in a bunch myself. I've heard of very few times when there's been a real rip-off. As far as I know, even when there's really unpleasant misunderstandings, people almost always work out a fair solution with the aid of Sulis. Good grief, we had a member who didn't follow through on her trades and many months later her family came on to say she'd had a stroke and was just recovering, and they finished up the unfinished business. And I'm on another tarot forum where people "know" one another hardly at all, and there, too, the sales and trades seem to almost always go off without a hitch.
 

shadowdancer

I have not used kickstarter to create anything, but like many members here, have invested in one creator and his deck.

It does rely a lot on honesty. If the funds are raised, we do have to put a lot of faith into the person and the fact they will honour the commitment. That is why I would only do it with someone I have got to know over a period of time, either here or anothe forum.

What I do like about the facility is that the creator can create a deck they may have otherwise not been able to fund. I also like how they can have varying levels of offer ranging from the $5 upwards.

It would be interesting to see how many do make the targets they set. From what I have seen, those offering decks at reasonable prices, and who set realistic targets do make them. Those who set otherwise seem to struggle.
 

garmonbozia

The link to kickstarter was removed from this thread for the reasons listed in this post over in the Tarot Deck Creation forum.

May I ask what the difference is between posting a link to a deck we find on Kickstarter vs. an Etsy shop or an artist's blog, etc...? Why is Kickstarter being treated differently in cases where it is not self-promotion?

I guess it is not a big deal as someone can still say "such and such"a deck is available on Kickstarter and I can still go there myself and find it. I am just curious about the reasoning behind the distinction because I don't see one myself.

I've not used Kickstarter before this week, but found some decks there I really hope come to fruition, because of posts I read I read on this site, and I am glad I found the information here. I've now pledged to buy three different decks and am excited about them.
 

Alta

Why is Kickstarter being treated differently in cases where it is not self-promotion?
Because we have now had several artists come to promote their Kickstarter (or IndiGoGo) projects, I had to re-write the Creation posting rules:
Since the rise in popularity of sites such as Kickstarter and IndiGoGo, we have had several tarot artists join apparently for the sole reason of getting funds to print their decks.

To try and be clear:

Tarot Deck Creation is just that, a place to discuss the creation of a tarot deck including theme, materials, size of images, media and etc. It can be used to post cards for help and comments. In this sense, we acknowledge that of course tarot deck creators are promoting their eventual products, and that is fine.

The forum can also be used to discuss finding a publisher, how to self-produce, suggestions about formatting, bleeds and other technical issues. Even about producing boxes and postage rates.

However, to come and just ask for money via Kickstarter, IndiGoGo or other funding site is only to be done in the Advertising Forum. It isn't about the process, it is strictly for funding.

That said, if these same artists wish to get into the spirit of the forum, they are very welcome to participate.

If any further clarification is wanted or needed, please PM me.

Thanks,
Alta
But, to directly reply to your question:

1. On etsy the decks exist, and are available for purchase. It is a straight transaction.

2. On the artists' blogs, the artists are discussing their process, their meaning etc. In general they are not asking for money.

3. Kickstarter (& IndiGoGo) are effectively what software people call 'vapourware', that is the end product only exists in the mind(s) of its creator(s) to be.

And most important, it certainly is self-promotion. The people are asking for money, which is generally labelled a 'donation' or 'investment'. Since the product doesn't exist, you can't actually buy it.

Now, I do not mean any slight to Pixelsmith and aimeedanger. They are very likely complete honest and wishing to create their decks and lacking the funds to do so. They are each a subscriber and may post about their projects in Advertisements and aimeedanger at least has done so.

In general we try to protect the members here (to the best of our knowledge and ability) from possible scams. Also, the last thing we would want is to see the Creation forum, meant to be an artistic and technical discussion forum for the process of deck creation, into a pool for people asking for funding.

And that is why not. Please post or PM if you still have questions or follow-up.

Regards,
Alta
Moderator, Tarot Deck Creation
 

garmonbozia

Hi Alta,
Thanks for your reply. I agree with all of your points, and it makes sense that tarot deck creation is not the place for these posts if the artist is not asking for feedback or input into their creative process. But what if they are? Is Kickstarter really any different than artists doing preorders in the deck creation forum?

What is not clear to me, is where can someone who is not the artist inform others that an interesting deck exists on a website like Kickstarter or IndieGoGo? This is not self-promotion, but those links are being removed also. I would have guessed the proper place for posts like these would be the tarot decks forum, but I guess no links to a Kickstarter page are allowed at all? (unless it is from the artist him/herself in the advertisement forum?)
 

Alta

The artist(s) is(are) very very welcome to come and discuss their deck(s) in Creation, but not Decks, that is for completed decks and that has always been true. They can discuss their story, their process, ask for comments on the cards or ask for help with technical details. They can even link to a blog or Facebook page.

What they can't do is ask for money. If they want to do that Advertisements is the right place.

ETA: not in Decks either, because of the general policy about asking for money, and also because these decks do not exist in fact. Tarot Decks is for discussing available (well, more or less, hard to find decks also get discussed) decks.

Please keep asking if you still have comments. The moderators have been discussing this off and on since before Christmas when these issues first came up.

Alta
 

Alta

What is not clear to me, is where can someone who is not the artist inform others that an interesting deck exists on a website like Kickstarter or IndieGoGo?
It gets tricky here because how could we know if it is simply a friend of the artist posting to promote without seeming to? Tarot or not, we certainly don't have the gift of omniscience. :laugh:

You could see if the artist mentions a Facebook page or blog and post that. Or message the artist and ask if they are interested in joining ATF and posting about their deck.
 

gregory

I think if we see something we really think needs and deserves support, PMs and emails are the best way to go. I am at this moment backing two decks that I feel comfortable about - one I "know" the artist on line, the other is here, but not being pushy about it.

Even paypal doesn't allow the sale of "virtual" goods - as someone we all know and love here found out with preorders once - I can't now recall who, but paypal made them return all the money paid until the deck was ready to roll. It isn't just here that wants to protect people from scammers.

And as Alta says - there is nothing to stop the artists discussing a work in progress her e- they just cannot ask for money outside the advertising area. Which is also the case for completed decks, actually.

Asking for money is basically commerce. Advertising anywhere costs - and here is no different - you pay a sub and then you can advertise. When you do that you can also discuss your work (but not the money side) in creation. If a kickstarter creator doesn't want to do that - that's their loss. If you know a project you feel is worth supporting, tell the creator to sign up ?