is court card referring to me?

One can argue that the use of reversed cards itself is a form of yes/no questioning, where we basically ask the cards to show us if the reversed 'rules' should apply or not.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have been aware of this. But taking a topsy turvy meaning for a reversed card is a sort of symbolic logic. The card is as it were asking for an alternative read.

I still think a bit of structuring may do the trick. Since 6 is neatly divided by 3, you may want to try something like this:

a Court in 1 and 2 - always the sitter
a Court in 3 and 4 - another person or event
a Court in 5 and 6 - always another person

Click to expand...

This is not fair. One third goes to the sitter, and the other twothirds to the other. This is better: Card 1,2,3 - the sitter, Card 4,5,6 the other. And forget about the event, because that is the business of the major arcana.

But still I have some reservations. Suppose there are several court cards in a row. It makes less sense to refer two cards to the same person.

nuttyprofessor said:

Yes, I have been aware of this. But taking a topsy turvy meaning for a reversed card is a sort of symbolic logic. The card is as it were asking for an alternative read.

Click to expand...

Still, I don't think it's too different from using an external indicator. In essence, they're both asking which side of a dichotomous meaning the reader ought to take.

This is not fair. One third goes to the sitter, and the other twothirds to the other. This is better: Card 1,2,3 - the sitter, Card 4,5,6 the other. And forget about the event, because that is the business of the major arcana.

Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.

But still I have some reservations. Suppose there are several court cards in a row. It makes less sense to refer two cards to the same person.

Click to expand...

This needs more thinking. Traditionally, the other Court(s) are referred to as 'the sitter's thoughts' or the people/events that are on the sitter's mind. There might be some sense in incorporating this idea.

Past few years, my reading practice is: court cards are people. Under most circumstances, male courts mean males, and female courts mean females. (Yes there are exceptions to the rule. )

I just became suspicious of reading courts as energies and aspects.

Eta: oh great, I killed the thread

Not at all, Debra. How do you distinguish in a spread whether any given Court refers to the sitter or other people?

Debra said:

Past few years, my reading practice is: court cards are people. Under most circumstances, male courts mean males, and female courts mean females. (Yes there are exceptions to the rule. )

I just became suspicious of reading courts as energies and aspects.

Eta: oh great, I killed the thread

Click to expand...

I'm so glad you posted this. I, too, like the idea of courts just meaning people, although I know that in practice for me they often mean a personality trait which is needed, or a situation, eg. Pages being messages. Reading your post just cut through some of the confusion I can experience, and gave me clarity on a reading I did last night. I had totally forgotten that basic meaning of pages as young women! Now I understand my reading so much better, and it was so simple all along!

I think it completely depends on each readers' style and preference. For me, upright court cards most often mean me or an aspect/behaviour of mine; whereas reversed court cards mean "someone else, not you". However, two court cards - upright or reversed - can mean two people involved and their behaviour/personalities. I also "feel" when cards mean a specific person I know because some cards have a personal connection.

They can also mean the behaviour or mindset that's required, or what's hindering the querent. I don't tend to see them as energies but I wouldn't exclude that outright, either.

There are many ways to look at this and it's not guesswork, it's about building a database in your mind about what cards mean to you personally, what kind of a story they tell.

When reading for others, I intuit the answer based on the abovementioned system and the spread as a whole. I don't believe in fixed methods that would ALWAYS deliver within the framework: tarot is art, not science, and there is a need for creativity, flexibility and intuition to make it work, IMO. It's not like each card is a letter of an alphabet and can only be read in one way.

dancing_moon said:

Not at all, Debra. How do you distinguish in a spread whether any given Court refers to the sitter or other people?

Click to expand...

Whew. Thread survives!
I forgot the question!
To be honest, I don't have much trouble determining who the court refers to, not to say I'm always right. But the sitter's temperament and gender, along with the question and spread positions, pretty much point in the right direction.

I think many readers, at least me, hesitate to predict that a person will enter the scene. It's safer to read cards as tendencies, traits, etc. than it is to predict a particular type of person will enter the scene--who is that tall dark stranger? Well, when he shows up, we'll find out.

I felt so liberated when I started reading courts as tendencies and traits. So much more flexible, intuitive, free...but a couple of years ago I came to see it was my fear of being wrong, of not knowing who that King might be, that made this way of reading so appealing.

I realized (pardon my French) "This is bullshit" and now I almost always interpret the people in tarot court cards as people in real life.

JylliM, thanks for your kind words. Means a lot to me.

JylliM said:

I had totally forgotten that basic meaning of pages as young women!

Click to expand...

No worry. You are allowed to forget it. Pages are according to the wikipedia definitely boys in service of a knight. They might be messenger, but then for a noblemen or apprentice knight. In relation to the court knight, service I find more likely.

Debra said:

Past few years, my reading practice is: court cards are people. Under most circumstances, male courts mean males, and female courts mean females. (Yes there are exceptions to the rule. )

I just became suspicious of reading courts as energies and aspects.

Click to expand...

Debra said:

...It's safer to read cards as tendencies, traits, etc. than it is to predict a particular type of person will enter the scene--

...but a couple of years ago I came to see it was my fear of being wrong, of not knowing who that King might be, that made this way of reading so appealing.

I realized (pardon my French) "This is bullshit" and now I almost always interpret the people in tarot court cards as people in real life.

Click to expand...

YES!
I much prefer the seemingly reckless approach of reading court cards as people. One should always be willing to take risks for the sake of knowledge (I think). I've learned things much faster by taking those kinds of risks... fortune-teller style.

In my experience, the court cards least likely to represent actual people are the Knights. Queens and Kings have been more demonstrative of actual people in a situation. Pages as well, but no matter what, other cards will help determine just what exactly is going on with a particular court card.

ETA: My previous comments on this topic- http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=4436924

So most of us agree that we should not do unnecessarily complicated, and read court cards just as people.

Back to the original question. What would be wrong if we discern between me and them by means of position, like dancing moon is proposing.