Elemental dignities. Help!

TheProphet

I do hope that I'm posting this in the right section, if not, my apologies and please move it.

Okay, so, I've been looking into elemental dignities. I don't use reversals in my readings, I have tried it but it doesn't feel good to me. From what I understand, many of those who doesn't use reversals instead refer to elemental dignities (ED) to understand the energy in the reading better and to know which card is meant to be read ill-dignified. I have tried to study up on it, but I struggle with understanding it correctly.

For example: If asking about someone's feelings and you receive the cards:

Strength (Fire) / Temperance (Fire) / 10 of Cups (Water)

If read upright, it looks positive. But when implementing ED, it's not as positive? From what I understand, the center card is the important one, and Fire and Water are unfriendly and weaken each other. Does this mean that because of the flanking cards (Fire + Water), the center card (Temperance) is therefore weakened? If it's weakened, does it mean that it's ill-dignified = the reversed/blocked meaning of the card? And how does Strength and 10 of Cups come into play?

I would greatly appreciate some help as I would like to learn more about ED and implement it in my readings since I don't use reversals.
 

rwcarter

Hi TheProphet,

Take a look through the Elemental Dignities Study Group Discussion & Index Thread which also includes links to exercises showing EDs in use. Feel free to go through the exercises and post your results.

In a FFW triad, by traditional ED methods, the flanking cards would cancel each other out because they're unfriendly, leaving just the center F. I think it's silly to waste cards like that, so I would say that the central Fire is weakened slightly by the Water because it is strengthened even more by the first Fire.

Depending on how you read, weakened is not the same as reversed. Looking at just the Temperance - 10C combo, I'd say that trying to maintain a happy home life (10C) is interfering with trying to restore balance to the relationship (Temperance).

Rodney
 

TheProphet

Hi TheProphet,

Take a look through the Elemental Dignities Study Group Discussion & Index Thread which also includes links to exercises showing EDs in use. Feel free to go through the exercises and post your results.

In a FFW triad, by traditional ED methods, the flanking cards would cancel each other out because they're unfriendly, leaving just the center F. I think it's silly to waste cards like that, so I would say that the central Fire is weakened slightly by the Water because it is strengthened even more by the first Fire.

Depending on how you read, weakened is not the same as reversed. Looking at just the Temperance - 10C combo, I'd say that trying to maintain a happy home life (10C) is interfering with trying to restore balance to the relationship (Temperance).

Rodney

Thanks so much for posting that link, Rodney! I will definitely take a look at it. And thank you for explaining. I agree, I also think it's silly to waste cards, because that's the impression that I got--that the center card is basically the only one that matters when reading ED, which too me sounds strange, because the other 2 cards must have meaning too. And thank you for clarifying that weakened is not the same as reversed. My line of thought was "the water extinguishes the fire" and so it would have the reversed meaning. I hope that I will learn more and know how to work with elemental dignities, but it will take a lot of practice. Thanks again.
 

rwcarter

Thanks so much for posting that link, Rodney! I will definitely take a look at it. And thank you for explaining. I agree, I also think it's silly to waste cards, because that's the impression that I got--that the center card is basically the only one that matters when reading ED, which too me sounds strange, because the other 2 cards must have meaning too. And thank you for clarifying that weakened is not the same as reversed. My line of thought was "the water extinguishes the fire" and so it would have the reversed meaning. I hope that I will learn more and know how to work with elemental dignities, but it will take a lot of practice. Thanks again.
I didn't explain myself well. EDs are read in triads ABC with B being the central and therefore most important card in the triad. A and C are read in relation to their interaction with B. Only in the case where A and C are of unfriendly elements do they cancel each other out according to traditional EDs.

The only cases where the flanking card is strong enough to counteract the central card is when both flanking cards are opposite to the central card - WFW, FWF, EAE and AEA. Even then for me it would depend on the specific cards and question being asked on whether those flanking cards where strong enough to give the central card a more reversed interpretation or just seriously weakens the central card.

So in your FFW example, the single W is nowhere near strong enough to extinguish the central F, especially not when it's strengthened by another F. The way I read EDs (as you'll see if you look through the exercises) is that I almost always start with the central card and then bring in the interpretations of the flanking cards (usually left then right, but sometimes it flows better to go right then left). And as you'll also see, I look at all three combinations of ABC (ABC, BCA and CAB) to show how changing the central card changes the interpretation.

Of course there are other ways to read EDs, and I encourage folks to find the way that makes most sense to them. But I think folks need to understand the basics before they can find their own way.

Rodney
 

zach bender

mathers says

in a sequence of three cards, the center card influences, and is influenced by, each of the cards flanking it. or not so much, if the flanking cards themselves are -- as here -- in opposition to one another.

however, says Macgregor Mathers in his "Book T,"

f the contrary element is only in one flanking card, then the other becomes a connecting card so that the [center card] is not weakened, but is modified by the influence of both cards and is, therefore, fairly strong.
 

TheProphet

I didn't explain myself well. EDs are read in triads ABC with B being the central and therefore most important card in the triad. A and C are read in relation to their interaction with B. Only in the case where A and C are of unfriendly elements do they cancel each other out according to traditional EDs.

The only cases where the flanking card is strong enough to counteract the central card is when both flanking cards are opposite to the central card - WFW, FWF, EAE and AEA. Even then for me it would depend on the specific cards and question being asked on whether those flanking cards where strong enough to give the central card a more reversed interpretation or just seriously weakens the central card.

So in your FFW example, the single W is nowhere near strong enough to extinguish the central F, especially not when it's strengthened by another F. The way I read EDs (as you'll see if you look through the exercises) is that I almost always start with the central card and then bring in the interpretations of the flanking cards (usually left then right, but sometimes it flows better to go right then left). And as you'll also see, I look at all three combinations of ABC (ABC, BCA and CAB) to show how changing the central card changes the interpretation.

Of course there are other ways to read EDs, and I encourage folks to find the way that makes most sense to them. But I think folks need to understand the basics before they can find their own way.

Rodney

Thanks so much for clarifying and adding more information. I'm going to copy this and put it in my notes!
 

TheProphet

in a sequence of three cards, the center card influences, and is influenced by, each of the cards flanking it. or not so much, if the flanking cards themselves are -- as here -- in opposition to one another.

however, says Macgregor Mathers in his "Book T,"

f the contrary element is only in one flanking card, then the other becomes a connecting card so that the [center card] is not weakened, but is modified by the influence of both cards and is, therefore, fairly strong.


Thank you for pitching in with information! I will continue to study ED and I hope to be able to truly grasp it and use it properly in my readings. I'm not there yet, but hopefully soon! I will put that in my notes :)