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Study Notes: Valens Anthology

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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
but the problem I have is one of judging the presence of a *specific* disease from the chart. i.e, by seeing the chart, how do I judge that Moon in Scorpio and ruling Lot of Fortune means madness, and not (say) a vacillating will?
Even with disease the Moon and Scorpio could mean many things, and narrowing it down seems hard (at least at my level of knowledge)

Of course as a *diagnostic* device, this works extremely well. In other words, if we were to examine the astrological chart of a patient, we could trace a specific disease (here madness) to a specific astrological factor (here Moon in Scorpio + Moon is Ruler of Spirit), and then prescribe specific drugs or rituals etc.

I suspect this section of Valens has to deal with diagnosis, as ancient physicians did, and not necessarily prediction, as astrologers do.

just a thought.
My feeling is that you can't predict precisely using this approach. What you can do is identify possible weak areas for health. That is where injuries might occur or what sort of disease the native is prone too. It might be possible in more advanced predictive methods to identify periods of high risk of either injury or disease.

Alternatively you can use it as a diagnostic tool, as you suggest. But I don't think that the ill health is necessarily entailed. Because someone is prone to a particular form of disease does not necessitate them succumbing to it either regularly or at some occasion in the future.

I have Saturn on the Ascendant, in Detriment in Leo. There are at least three possibilities here. Firstly Saturn on the Ascendant threatens life and thus suggests a likely death in infancy. Secondly, Leo as the Ascending sign threatens heart disease, Saturn also signifies the knees (through Capricorn, my sixth place) I have Fortune in Aries and Spirit in Sagittarius the former is linked to dim vision, arthritic joints and hearing problems. The second is also linked to loss of vision. Now there's a lot there that I could suffer from, but if I die in childbirth or shortly after, none of the others will materialise.

In fact I did have a difficult birth and need a lot of support from the midwife. At one point my father was told that my life was in danger and I might not survive. Luckily I did, and this isn't a ghost column. But, I do have high blood pressure (since my late fifties) I do have poor vision and need spectacles (since my early teens). I now have to wear hearing aids (since my mid sixties) and I have arthritic knees and finger joints (knees are worse, fingers are not too bad)

So taking Ascendant, Fortune, Spirit and the Place of Harm, all have contributed something to my health issues, more as I move towards old age than in my youth. Oddly I did have a knee injury as a child and still have a scar, so injury through Fortune and disease through the Place of Harm seem to be indicated. but not at the same time for everything.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
Example 4

The last sentence is very intriguing. Why should a malefic in the IC give visions of the dead etc? I suspect this is a remnant from some kind of ancient shamanism, which would treat the IC as a gate to the underworld/spirit world etc. Not sure why Saturn would give visions. I'd have thought Saturn would indicate skepticism etc.
Earlier on Valens identifies the fourth place (the IC, whether astronomic or not) as follows:

[I][If benefics rule the Ascendant or Fortune, and are in this Place, the native will make his living in temples. If benefics are assigned the Archetypal Lot, and are house rulers at Lower Midheaven, the native will be given revelations by gods and through visions of ghostly shapes.

If Mars is here with them and is assigned Fortune and the Ascendant, the native will live a troubled life, disgraced, falling into difficulties, engaged in criminal activity with others, and suffering a violent/self-inflicted death. It must be observed that this Place implies good repute after death and bequests to heirs. If malefics are in this Place, the native will bequeath his property to whomever he wishes.
/I]

There's clearly a religious dimension which is lost to present day Astrology or even the Astrology of Lilly. There is overtones of the idea of the fourth as the end of the matteras it signifies reputation after death. Now although he doesn't mention Saturn here, I have a recollection that Robert Schmidt claimed that Saturn had a signfication for observances in the temple. I'll have to go and check that one out. but clearly, the visions are signified as being connected to the IC.
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Quote:
My feeling is that you can't predict precisely using this approach. What you can do is identify possible weak areas for health. That is where injuries might occur or what sort of disease the native is prone too. It might be possible in more advanced predictive methods to identify periods of high risk of either injury or disease.
Yes this is a good approach. As I said in an earlier post, the diseases which do manifest can be traced back to these signs, at least for me personally. Specific times where they are likely to manifest, if identified in advance, should be quite useful.

As for the malefics on the IC (+ potentially ruling Spirit) effects, it might be interesting to look at modern horoscopes, and see what manifests. Are they diagnosed with schizophrenia? undergo "UFO abductions"? Or perhaps follow occult paths? (In this section Valens indentifies this with 'initiations').

None of my (small) collection of horoscopes shows this. But it might be interesting to keep an eye out for this effect. Perhaps in horaries.
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Example # 5

Ascendant = Gemini
Sun = Aquarius (9th)
Moon = Virgo (4th)
Mercury = Capricorn (8th)
Venus = Pisces (10th)
Mars = Cancer (2nd)
Jupiter = Gemini (1st)
Saturn = Taurus (12th)

Lot of Fortune = Capricorn (8th)
Lot of Spirit = Scorpio (6th)

(Note: I've given up trying to predict diseases, because I can't make it work. So I'll confine myself to examining the Lots and anything else I find interesting about the horoscope and then give Valnes's judgment)

My observations:
Lots are both inconjunct to the ascendant. Not very good.
Lord of Fortune (Saturn) is in Taurus *and the 12th place*.
Lord of Spirit (Mars) is in fall in Cancer . Lord of Ascendant also in the 8th.

So overall this horoscope would seem to indicate poor health.

Valens says "Malefics were in opposition to the Lots. The native was homosexual and had unmentionable vices, because Capricorn is a lewd sign and its ruler [Saturn] was in Taurus, a pathic sign. Scorpio also indicates this kind of vice."

Interesting that homosexuality is considered a 'disease' to be predicted via disease/health procedure (I'm not judging Valens. Different times have different mores. Just saying it is interesting)

also interesting that no other health issues are mentioned. This horoscope would seem to indicate serious diseases, at least by the procedures encountered so far.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
Example # 5

Interesting that homosexuality is considered a 'disease' to be predicted via disease/health procedure (I'm not judging Valens. Different times have different mores. Just saying it is interesting)

also interesting that no other health issues are mentioned. This horoscope would seem to indicate serious diseases, at least by the procedures encountered so far.
I think Valens would have said homosexuality was not normal (though in this he would be wrong, at least statistically speaking). However he would have been tolerant unless the behaviour became excessive. Spirit is in Scorpio, and Scorpio suggests diseases relating to the genitals, especially placed in the sixth, the Place of Harm, where it is afflicted by Saturn.

He's not calling for the guy to be imprisoned or burnt at the stake. as later theologians might have done. He just finds some of what his subject is up to, to be lewd. As he doesn't go into what those practices are, it's difficult to judge Valens' moral compass. I think he just decided to draw a veil over them (which of course might say something more about him, if we actually knew what he was veiling.)
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That makes a lot of sense Minderwiz


I'm learning a lot from Valens's book and your clarifications.
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I like Valens. He's a practicing Astrologer. it's not necessary to agree with everything he says but he's clearly spent many years learning his craft (It took him 10 years to write the Anthology). As with all Astrologers,. he learns from practice and experience, so his views will shift a little over that period, but then that holds for the large majority of us.
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Example # 6

Ascendant = Capricorn
Sun =Sagittarius (12th)
Moon = Cancer(8th)
Mercury = Scorpio (11th)
Venus = Sagittarius (12th)
Mars = Leo(8th)
Jupiter = Leo(6th)
Saturn = Gemini(6th)

Lot of Fortune = Leo(8th)
Lot of Spirit = Gemini (7th)

Notes: Lot of Fortune in the 8th, and Lord of Fortune (Sun) in the natal 12th. These aren't good signs. Lord of Fortune (Sun) and Jupiter (Lord of 12th) are in mutual reception. (which ameliorates this?)

Lot of Spirit is in the 7th and Lord in the 11th. This seems good.

Interestingly both lights are in cadent places, though the Moon is in her own domicile.

Signwise Fortune is in Leo, and Spirit is in Gemini.

Valens comment:
"Saturn located in this sign caused him to be castrated. The ruler [of Gemini], Mercury, was in Scorpio, which indicated the genitals, and the Sun in Sagittarius indicated the region of the groin…

Malefics entering Daimon or in opposition [to Daimon] cause insanity and possession…"

The last line is interesting. I wonder if Valens is hinting that something like this did happen to the native.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
Example # 6

The last line is interesting. I wonder if Valens is hinting that something like this did happen to the native.
Do you mean insanity or possession, or both?

Valens probably believed in bad spirits, after all the twelfth is the Place of the Bad Daimon. Just as he believed that he had a Good Spirit looking after him. So I would think that he did believe in possession. This would likely be classified as some form of psychological disorder today. But then Valens wrote 1700 years before Freud.

Incidentally, Lilly as clear horories connected to Witchcraft, which also use the twelfth as the significating house. You will find at the end of Book II, the horary, 'If One be Bewitched or not?'
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Interesting Minderwiz, Thanks


I guess I was going for 'both'. I thought it interesting that Mars conjunct (which is presumably what Valens meant by 'entering') Lot of Spirit led to an inference of possession etc


I maintain a loose (theoretical) interest in the 'magic(k)' uses of astrology, and it is very interesting to know that 12th signifies witchcraft. Hmm I have Saturn in the 12th, so I could be a (practical) "witch" if I wanted to? ha!
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