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Study Notes: Valens Anthology

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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Example #6 (for violent death)
Ascendant = Aquarius
Lot of Fortune = Leo (7th)

Sun = Capricorn (12th)
Moon = Cancer (6th)
Mercury = Sagittarius (11th)
Venus = Capricorn (12th)
Mars = Leo (7th)
Jupiter = Taurus (4th)
Saturn = Sagittarius (11th)

Ascendant (Aquarius) Lord is Saturn (in 11th, Sagittarius). 8th from Ascendant (Virgo) Lord (death giver) Mercury is in Sagittarius (11th) and in fall. Aspect! Conjunction. First sign of violent death.

Fortune (Leo) lord(life giver) Sun is in Capricorn (12th). 8th from Fortune (Pisces) lord Jupiter (death giver) is in Tarus (4th). Trine. Not a difficult aspect.

The New Moon position is the sign of the Sun, Capricorn (12th). Lord Saturn is in Sagittarius (11th). Averse . (second hit for violent death). He is trined by Mars from Leo. This *is* an aspect from a malefic, but it is a trine, so not sure how to judge this.

The Full Moon position is 7th from the Sun (in Capricorn) so Cancer. The Moon is in Cancer, so this is close to an actual Full Moon. Ruler (Moon) is in Cancer. So not averse.

It *is* opposed by Mars. So "aspect by Malefic" holds. I'd judge this as half a hit, given the strong position of the Moon. Note however that this is a day birth, so Mars is the out of sect malefic, and in above the sky in Leo, a fire sign. Likely to be quite malefic.

Mercury in Sagittarius (11th) is not opposite the Full Moon position in Cancer.

There is a malefic (Mars) in the descendant. (another hit).

So there is a good chance the death is violent, and of the nature of Pisces, Virgo and Mars. Mars in Leo seems to be the most prominent. something fiery?

Valens says " Mars was in Leo, a fiery and solar sign, in opposition to the Ascendant. Saturn and Mercury were in superior aspect to the [8th] Place of Death [Pisces]. The native was burned alive."

Ha! I got the fire right. But I missed the Saturn + Mercury in superior aspect to Pisces. Valens does mention that every aspect to the 8th place influences the nature of death. so, mea culpa, though I still don't see how these indicate fiery death.
Top   #161
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Example 7 (for violent death)


ASC = Cancer (1st)
Fortune = Libra (4th)

Sun = Capricorn (7th)
Moon = Libra (4th)
Mercury = Sagittarius(6th)
Venus = Aquarius (8th)
Mars = Cancer (1st)
Jupiter = Gemini (12th)
Saturn = Taurus (11th)

From ASC (Cancer), LifeGiver is the Moon in the 4th (Libra). From the ascendant (Cancer) 8th is Capricorn. Lord Saturn is in the 11th (Taurus). No aspect

Lord of Fortune (Libra) is Venus (life giver) in Aquarius. 8th from Fortune is Taurus, which also has Venus as Lord. (not sure this is a violent death indicator). But Saturn is there. First testimony for violent death.

Full Moon position is 7th from Capricorn (where the Sun is) so Cancer. The Moon is in Libra (4th). Not averse.
Squared by Mars (from the 1st). Second testimony for violent death.

New Moon position is Capricorn (where the Sun is) Lord Saturn is in Taurus. So not averse. Sextiled by Mars from the 1st. (since the aspect is a sextile, not sure this is a violent death indicator).

Mercury in Sagittarius is not opposite the Full Moon position in Capricorn.

There is no malefic in the 7th (Capricorn) or the 6th (Sagittarius)
There is no malefic in the 7th from Fortune (Aries) or the 6th (Pisces).

So two testimonies for violent death - eigth from Fortune conjunct Saturn and Mars squaring Full Moon position

Valens says
"The Moon was in Libra and was in inferior aspect to Mars, which was in opposition to the Sun. The [8th] Place of Death was in Taurus, and Saturn was there.

The native was thrown to the lions. (!!!)
"

Yeow, how does one even begin to predict "thrown to the lions!!!"
Top   #162
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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So one problem with these 'violent death' rules


is that a malefic in the descendant and the sign preceeding, from *both* Ascendant and Fortune is considered an indicator of violent death. So we have 4 signs of 12. Which gives a 1/3d chance of violent deaths. Since there are two malefics, the chances double.

Now add in the presence of malefics in the eighth from ascendant *and* Fortune (Valens uses this as an indicator in the last example), and checking for aspects from malefics in the sign of the Full Moon and New Moon and practically *every* horoscope will have one ore more indicators of 'violent death'

How reliable are these rules then? Once we know that someone died violently, we can take his horoscope and find one or more of testimonies for these rules, just because almost every horoscope will have at least one.

i must be missing something
Top   #163
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Fortieth Day of the Moon


Valens actually mentioned this in Book 1 - it has a chapter all to itself:
15. The Third, Seventh, and Fortieth Days of the Moon.
The third, seventh, and fortieth days of the Moon as follows: assume the Moon is in Scorpio 7°; the third day will be in Sagittarius 7°. [It is necessary to investigate the day in this way. Sagittarius 7° has become the third day.] In the nativity chart the seventh will be found in square, at Aquarius 7°. The fortieth will be at Taurus 7°. (Some add 160° to the Moon’s position at birth and count off this amount from the Moon’s sign. Others add to the Moon’s position at birth (its positions) on the third and seventh and fortieth days, then after calculating, they interpret the Moon at those places.)

In general they note the fortunate, unfortunate, and average nativities according to the third, seventh, and fortieth days: if these locations are beheld by benefics in operative places, and not by malefics, then you can predict exceedingly great good fortune. If two of these locations are beheld by benefics and one by malefics, then you can predict average fortune. If three are beheld by malefics, with the benefics turned away, then predict misfortune. If the situation is mixed, say “average.”

So you would need to cast a new chart for the fortieth day, for that person and read that. If in each of the three new charts (3rd, 7tj, 40th) The Moon is afflicted then the native has real problems. Two out of three afflicted then his situation is below average.

On the rules for violent death, you need to remember that in Valens' time the real risk of violent death was much higher than now. Falls, cuts, broken bones could all produce complications and would greatly reduce the life expectancy a number of estimates have put the average lifespan below 50 for Ancient Greece and even as low as 35. A more recent study claimed that the average lifespan was 71, equivalent to those dying in 1950 (Source: Journal of Royal Society of Medicine, January 1994) but this latter study eliminated 99 out ofthe original 397 people in their sample because the died violent deaths, so I don't think we are comparing like with like.) I wonder what the results would have been for 400 people born in 1880, whose lives would have encompassed both World Wars.

So I think it comes down to the context of the time. If there's wars going on then the risk of violent death increases significantly.
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanMenon View Post
ASC = Cancer (1st)
Fortune = Libra (4th)

Sun = Capricorn (7th)
Moon = Libra (4th)
Mercury = Sagittarius(6th)
Venus = Aquarius (8th)
Mars = Cancer (1st)
Jupiter = Gemini (12th)
Saturn = Taurus (11th)



Yeow, how does one even begin to predict "thrown to the lions!!!"
The Project Hindsight translation doesn't mention Lions. It reads

Such a one fought with wild beasts

I'll post Rob Hands comments on this chart for you
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Thanks Minderwiz for digging up what


40th day of the Moon means. I must have read through it but I have zero recollection.

Very useful, thanks again. I'll try to use it in the remaining examples.

The 'wars increasing mortality' concept also makes sense. That still leaves us with the question of how to utilize this technique in the present day. Something to think on.

Cheers,
Top   #166
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Project Hindsight comments


I managed to get a copy of Project Hindsight's translation of the last part of Book II and the whole of Book III There are comments by Rob Hand on the violent deaths section but it looks to me more the sort of approach we've undertaken.

For the wild beasts chart he says: Here we have the Lot of Fortune and the Moon squared by Ares and the Sun and Kronos in the eighth house from the Lot Thus both the Lot and the eight house from the Lot are occupied or afflicted by malefics. However we also have Aphrodite ruling the Lot and the eight house from the Lot (Venus destroys herself) in the eighth house from the Horoskopos in square from Kronos in the eighth house from the Lot.

There's no mention specifically as to why it should be wild beasts and that seems to be typical of his comments, he explains the indicators of violent death but doesn't give any insights into the natures of those deaths.

One thing he does is show in the text at the end of the chapter that we are not talking about everyone.

In regard to the configuration of opposition, we have learned that malefics are not harmful in all ways for all nativities. Occasionally they are even benefic, especially for noble nativities, with the caution that [these nativities] are entangled in evils. Such nativities are violent men, living with struggles and involved in wicked, lawless activities. They act illegally; they plunder and rob; they become covetous and insanely arrogant because of the—temporary—blessings of fame. They attribute their own faults to others

So it seems to be those who live lives that lay them open to violent deaths through their lifestyle.
Top   #167
RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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Interesting Minderwiz,


but that is only about oppositions. Valens uses the presence of Malefics in the eighth, ascendant etc as well. also squares and even some instances of trines by malefics etc.

so Valens seems to be working backward from (violent/evil) lives to the chart factors (oppositions in this case). Hmm.

Overall I can't make this technique work. I looke at 5 natal charts of friends, and every one has one or more indicators of violent death. Hey maybe we'll all fall into a volcano or something. As explained two posts ago, if we adopt these testimonies, 2/3d of all horoscopes would *easily* show potential for violent deaths. Since none of my friends are the loot and pillage kind, not sure how much the 'opposition' material helps here.

Maybe this also needs an auxiliary technique like Zodiacal Releasing or profections etc to narrow down the possibility of violent death. We'll see.

So i read through the remaining 4 or so examples. (note to self. Revisit this material when all books have been worked through)

In the last couple of paragraphs, Valens seems to say that oppositions involving malefics *can* bring good results, but they almost certainly bring evil, especially when opposition involve ascendants and/or triplicity rulers.

at least that is how I interpret these paragraphs. There are no examples, so one can only guess at the intended factors.

and .....

That is the end of book 2!

Phew. 7 to go.
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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I very much doubt that this approach can be used solely on its own to forecast a violent death, with or without the 3, 7 and 40 days of the Moon. The last of these seems to be only relevant to the period at the end of the person's life and may help in identifying what will happen. I did find a website which used the technique to examine Hitler's life, using 3rd day for early life, 7th day for mature years and the 40th for his death.

However, in that website, it's still a forensic tool to examine (literally) post mortem, not to predict ante mortem. Without Valens alive and well or available via a medium, we'll never know if he ever thought it was a tool for prediction from the nativity, rather than providing him with a series of factors from the charts of people who had died violent deaths. to illuminate his unerstanding of what happened.
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RohanMenon  RohanMenon is offline
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And I think post mortem is a perfectly valid use


of the technique.

I think it might be valuable to do this analysis on charts of living people, as long as one is aware that most charts show one or more of these characteristics, and not everything strictly holds.
Top   #170

 





 


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