tink27
Minderwiz said:
I couldn't agree with you more! Doing a horary chart does take patience but the rewards are worth the effort. It has never lead me astray....the truth awaits us among the heavenly spheres.
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astrology is not as practical as tarot
I couldn't agree with you more! Doing a horary chart does take patience but the rewards are worth the effort. It has never lead me astray....the truth awaits us among the heavenly spheres.
tink
sunstallion
what ?
I still dont get it. What if you dont know your birthdate at all, an expert astrology can still analyze yourself ? because I have talked to some people who grew up in that organization, who really have no idea what their birthdates are. They dont even have a clue of what month, day they were born on. One came from the poor country of Africa and the other came from Korea.
I still dont get it. What if you dont know your birthdate at all, an expert astrology can still analyze yourself ? because I have talked to some people who grew up in that organization, who really have no idea what their birthdates are. They dont even have a clue of what month, day they were born on. One came from the poor country of Africa and the other came from Korea.
Minderwiz
sunstallion said:I still dont get it. What if you dont know your birthdate at all, an expert astrology can still analyze yourself ?
It depends what you mean by 'analyze'. From the horary perspective there is no need to know any details of your birth to answer questions such as, 'are your parents still alive?' or 'where are your parents now?' which are the sort of questions that might have been important to the woman mentioned at the start of this thread. There are a myriad of other questions about you that could also be answered, including 'what type of person is this?' Horary requires that the question carries real importance for the person asking the question (the querent) and not simply idle speculation and also that the meaning of the question is clear to both querent and astrologer. The English Astrologer, William Lilly, claimed to be able to describe physically people from his horary charts (querents often simply asked their question by letter,so he did not physically meet them).
I'll leave Dave to explain his own approach to such circumstances and any limits on the accuracy of the natal details that he would adhere to.
Lynda
Hi Sunstallion
No, if you don't know your birthdate at all, astrology can't help you analyse yourself, you are right.... you can get a lot from no birth time, if you know the day, but if you don't know the day, there's no frame of reference to analyse your character.
In this argument, we've been mixing apples and oranges - I misread your post initially, thinking you meant no birthtime was available... no birth date is a very different story. In this case, using horary, as Leephd suggest, one can answer questions, just like one can with tarot, but analysing one's character is not so easy.
I hope this answers your question!
No, if you don't know your birthdate at all, astrology can't help you analyse yourself, you are right.... you can get a lot from no birth time, if you know the day, but if you don't know the day, there's no frame of reference to analyse your character.
In this argument, we've been mixing apples and oranges - I misread your post initially, thinking you meant no birthtime was available... no birth date is a very different story. In this case, using horary, as Leephd suggest, one can answer questions, just like one can with tarot, but analysing one's character is not so easy.
I hope this answers your question!
dadsnook2000
Astrology has its uses.
Sunstallion, astrology has its uses -- even when a birth date (as well as a birth time) are not known. As Minderwiz points out, Horary charts can be cast for the time/place a question is posed and can provide accurate and useful information.
Just as "Horary" charts are for a question, we can also use "Event" charts to help a person understand their situation and their future. What is an "Event" chart in this sense? From time to time each of us encounters a momentus event, happening or cognitive awareness that greatly impacts us. If we did know our birth chart then this event would show up relative to that chart. Since we don't know (for discussion purposes) the birth chart, we can still use the event chart to see how it can impact us. Using the event date/time as a type of birth chart, we can use Sidereal Solar Return techniques to see how that event will manifest over time.
I have done this many times. One current example is on another list that I moderate where I have been following Iraq's developing government process thru its several elections and now thru the major events that occur relative to the Dec. 15th 2005 election. These techniques are probably not for most intermediate students of astrology but they are useful and professional-level astrologers can certainly utilize them if they are familiar with the techniques that Sidereal astrologers use.
Well, thats my contribution to the discussion. I'm not looking to do work of this nature to prove a point as I have a very busy couple of months ahead of me, but I just wanted to note that astrology has its uses outside of being based on natal astrology. Dave
Sunstallion, astrology has its uses -- even when a birth date (as well as a birth time) are not known. As Minderwiz points out, Horary charts can be cast for the time/place a question is posed and can provide accurate and useful information.
Just as "Horary" charts are for a question, we can also use "Event" charts to help a person understand their situation and their future. What is an "Event" chart in this sense? From time to time each of us encounters a momentus event, happening or cognitive awareness that greatly impacts us. If we did know our birth chart then this event would show up relative to that chart. Since we don't know (for discussion purposes) the birth chart, we can still use the event chart to see how it can impact us. Using the event date/time as a type of birth chart, we can use Sidereal Solar Return techniques to see how that event will manifest over time.
I have done this many times. One current example is on another list that I moderate where I have been following Iraq's developing government process thru its several elections and now thru the major events that occur relative to the Dec. 15th 2005 election. These techniques are probably not for most intermediate students of astrology but they are useful and professional-level astrologers can certainly utilize them if they are familiar with the techniques that Sidereal astrologers use.
Well, thats my contribution to the discussion. I'm not looking to do work of this nature to prove a point as I have a very busy couple of months ahead of me, but I just wanted to note that astrology has its uses outside of being based on natal astrology. Dave
Minderwiz
dadsnook2000 said:Well, thats my contribution to the discussion. I'm not looking to do work of this nature to prove a point as I have a very busy couple of months ahead of me, but I just wanted to note that astrology has its uses outside of being based on natal astrology. Dave
I know the feeling!
But you are absolutely right to stress the main point of your post. Too often Astrology is seen to begin and end with 'natal' astrology when i'natal' work is only a small part of the tradition. Indeed the Independence Day forecast thread shows that 'mundane' Astrlogy is still alive well and this branch used to be seen as the most important branch. What happened to the country was seen to be far more important than individual people or individual questions.
leephd
Personality?
There's a line attributed to Maslow to the effect that, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Prior to approximately 1900, astrology wasn't used to study personality at all. That's because nobody talked about it, nobody though in those terms, and nobody went to an astrologer to say, "Tell me who I am." Astrology never developed to tell anybody who she/he is: that's merely an outgrowth of Alan Leo's quest to keep from being arrested again for fortune-telling. (I'm not joking. If you want to read the history of how we got modern natal psychological astrology, then read Patrick Curry's book, Confusion of Prophets.) Notice that I'm not sayng astrology cannot or shouldn't delve into personality: I'm merely pointing out that this obsession with personality is essentially a 20th century one.
For long before that, the natal reading was a predictive affair not unlike a modern Vedic reading. Natal and horary in those days wasn't so far apart. Good natal rediction required a good time - but a good time was almost never available. Rectification was rampant. But many people stuck to horary - precisely because you could ask about whatever was bothering you in the moment.
sunstallion said:I still dont get it. What if you dont know your birthdate at all, an expert astrology can still analyze yourself ? because I have talked to some people who grew up in that organization, who really have no idea what their birthdates are.
There's a line attributed to Maslow to the effect that, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Prior to approximately 1900, astrology wasn't used to study personality at all. That's because nobody talked about it, nobody though in those terms, and nobody went to an astrologer to say, "Tell me who I am." Astrology never developed to tell anybody who she/he is: that's merely an outgrowth of Alan Leo's quest to keep from being arrested again for fortune-telling. (I'm not joking. If you want to read the history of how we got modern natal psychological astrology, then read Patrick Curry's book, Confusion of Prophets.) Notice that I'm not sayng astrology cannot or shouldn't delve into personality: I'm merely pointing out that this obsession with personality is essentially a 20th century one.
For long before that, the natal reading was a predictive affair not unlike a modern Vedic reading. Natal and horary in those days wasn't so far apart. Good natal rediction required a good time - but a good time was almost never available. Rectification was rampant. But many people stuck to horary - precisely because you could ask about whatever was bothering you in the moment.
star-lover
sunstallion said:First of all, I dont think my knowledge is good enough to make any judgements. I dont mean to offend any astrologers in here. I just want to share with you this story.
I talked to a lady who work at a home that adopt children who dont know their parents are, like they got lost when they were young. This woman works with children came from all over the world like from Africa, India, Korean, etc... She knows astrology, tarot, and palm. She told me that of all the three disciplines. Tarot is the most practical to her. She cant use astrology to help the children because they dont have their exact birth information. Sometimes, if she does readings over telephone or emails, she cant do palm reading. But with tarot, she can use it with telephone, emails or in-person.
at the end of the day you use which ever discipline you find best, are more at ease at, get answers out of
one is not better than the other - its what works for you
some people are natural astrologers others find it too complex
some people can see tonnes of truths in the cards others struggle
just take what works for you
but you cant compare all the divinatory systems and say one is better than the other in general - they are all part and parcel of it all!!! xx its like a milk tray chocolate box - pick youre favourite lol
