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MandMaud  MandMaud is offline
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Dangerdork, you're successfully reinvigorating the discussion at least with this one feeble thread-participant.

But those images are stunning too! I really like the third person in the Lovers card, but both cards are lovely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdork View Post
I have many hobbies and a day job, so, yes, this has been years in the making - and it may take a couple more.
Could say the same about me reading through this thread... the Seven Stations is such an exciting concept, though. I'll be back.

Thanks, Rodney, for sending the PDF. Last week was extra-busy and I haven't been awake enough to read much at all for days, but it is so much easier than going through the thread (which for me means sitting at the laptop).
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Wow, there are definitely a lot of pages here...and I apologize if this has already been mentioned,

but I just saw the original post and the first thought that popped into my mind was - whoa, this is exactly like LiberT! (Liber Theta). The card sequences are different, but basically what Liber T describes is a method from Liber Tav, where the trumps are laid out in rows of seven with Universe separately (I'm referring to the drawing on pg11 of LiberT). But very curious about the deck!
Top   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delinfrey View Post
Wow, there are definitely a lot of pages here...and I apologize if this has already been mentioned,

but I just saw the original post and the first thought that popped into my mind was - whoa, this is exactly like LiberT! (Liber Theta). The card sequences are different, but basically what Liber T describes is a method from Liber Tav, where the trumps are laid out in rows of seven with Universe separately (I'm referring to the drawing on pg11 of LiberT). But very curious about the deck!
Thanks for the note delinfrey, I hadn't known that about Liber T. From images I'd seen, I'd assumed it was just a Thoth variant and not investigated further. I'll have to pick one up. You mentioned page 11 - is that from the LWB or is there a freestanding volume associated with "Liber Tav?" Is it related to this?

http://keepsilence.org/liberxxii/cd.aspx
Top   #223
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandMaud View Post
Dangerdork, you're successfully reinvigorating the discussion at least with this one feeble thread-participant.

But those images are stunning too! I really like the third person in the Lovers card, but both cards are lovely.



Could say the same about me reading through this thread... the Seven Stations is such an exciting concept, though. I'll be back.

Thanks, Rodney, for sending the PDF. Last week was extra-busy and I haven't been awake enough to read much at all for days, but it is so much easier than going through the thread (which for me means sitting at the laptop).
Thanks, MandMaud.

The third figure here was placed by intent. Often seen in this card is Cupid or the Angel Gabriel. Instead, I chose to include the older, traditional figure of Mother.

In the Seven Stations perspective, the interpretation of the second station of the third Path is "Your Inspiration" -- not from the State (IV, The Emperor) or the Church (V, The Hierophant) but the Inspirations arising from self-determinism - individualistic Choice.

Including the Snake and Fruit on the tree represents choices made in the spiritual world to follow an individualistic (Mystic) path - and in our case the male figure is both figuratively and literally turning his back on Mother (who represents traditions and the mundane hearth and home of his childhood) - in order to build a new destiny and legacy with his chosen life partner.

Rena's original drafts focused on capturing the passion and sensuality of the Lovers' embrace. I wanted to pull back on the physical aspect of their love and reminded her that we need to include in their pose that "Mother is watching" in order to emphasize this aspect of the card. This led to adding the traditional third character, who was never meant to represent a romantic rival for the female character but "Mother" as described above. I guess Freud would say she is both

Regardless, I think adding this figure enhances the intended symbolism of the card and I'm absolutely delighted with both the sensuality of the figures' new pose, their reflection of the tradition, and their representation of this position in the Seven Stations system.
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MandMaud  MandMaud is offline
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I never would have read all that into the card! All I could see was that there's a lot here, a very readable image with layers to be found by pondering longer.

I only knew the version with the old(er) man leering at the couple, as opposed to the sensual/sexual lovers kind of interpretation - and I like all the ways that the meanings of choice and of love can be coalesced, something like semantic shift. I hadn't come across the mother tradition but it "fits" very well, to me.
Top   #225
Lucas Prince of Cats  Lucas Prince of Cats is offline
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Brilliant!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdork View Post

OH, and by the way, as we look at these triads and I continue to ponder different "Seven Stages" or Phases or Steps of various initiatory traditions from Mithraism to Alchemy: I can't BELIEVE nobody commented on my Alchemical Wedding cryptogram. I ALSO can't believe that none of you touchy-feely crunchy granola New Agers didn't point out another obvious correlation that actually is very very interesting when applied to these triads of cards: Seven chakras. I mean, the colied-snake symbolism, secret tradition, SEVEN colors etc. A tradition which existed for more than a millenium before the first tarots. We can have some great fun with this. I feel a handout coming on.

And I should make another point: Maybe I've been trying too hard to correlate the Seven Stations with these different traditions. Why don't we just throw them out for now? (Not really, but let's put them in their box and wrap them in sik and place them over by the incense burner). We still have a 7x3 grid. Looking for ways to examine the seven triads we've defined doesn't have to be in terms of the categories dangerdork made up just a couple weeks ago, does it?

Have a look at this page, and see if you can't find some interesting correlations:

http://www.chakraenergy.com/seven.html

... and even if you can't, well... playing with this perspective on tarot just gave you an excuse to learn something.
OMG, you got me! So, I was hoping to loo for an old hread I was on, and found this! Well, I seriously think I stumbled upon this as of good fortune, destiny/fate, karma, or something meant to happen. I love your interpretation best! There is just so much for me to read and taht I'm seeing, and I really can't post something after reading ALL of this. Hehe, I think you've trapped every unsuspecting victim who happens to come across this thread. So, here's my say:

As soon as you started talking about laying the cards out in your own way or system, I tried a bit at it, and it had a lot to do with polarity, female/male, and balance. It wasn't quite finished, though.

Ah yes, you mentioned archetypes! I LOVE mythology, and archetypes fascnate me! So, what you say about the earth moither and dionysus, and the eagle and snake are so true!

I usually just do what court card someone is by their personality, and the traits of the card, but I like the idea that the cards gender means "passive" or "active" rather than female or male. Hmmm...

Now, I'm npot sure if you know, but I think kabbalists believe that the fool is the unborn dsoul, or for me, the detatched soul, upon detatching from the divine (which we can re-emerge to), and coming to be born, in the physical body, or the "fools journey" life.

Now, here's the main reason, I FINALLY replied! SEVEN, my favorite number! You know why? Because it's a spiritiual number! And it all the sevens, it's so fascinating. Yes, I am new age, and I'm always thinking about how these "sevens" connect. Yes, nice! Well, I've been thinking about the planets, as soon as you said planets, and about the chakras as soon as I saw your little thing based on the alchemy. Also, hehe, I am a great new age representative! Well, perhaps not great, but I am one!So, here's my sevens thoughts:
The root chakra is all about the physical world and survival, so that can go with origin, and it's connected to mars. The second chakra is the one of creativity, and our reactions to the world, so definitely inspiration, and venus. The third chakra is will-power and action, so with the sun, and power, YESSS!! Also, the fourth chakra works as a turning point, since it's the balance and/or connector. It could be connected to the moon, but taht could also be switched with venus. Than, transformation would be the fifth chakra, which is communication, and mercury is also a god associated with alchemy. Well, I think we're making something big in astrology, now! The sixth chakra is intuition, so very fitting, and it's planet would be jupiter. LAstly, the crown chakra, is the spirituality chakra, associated with saturn, and I geuss it could do with destiny. Well, actually, saturn is the karmic planet!

Now, let's looka t why seven is so important! t was decided long ago that it was important, becuase 4 is the number of the earth, as it has four seasons, and four directions. 3 is the divine umber, or the number of heaven, and so the 3 o divine heaven and 4 of the earth together is the 7 of the complete whole. I've been thinking, and The Spirit Science guy, and a famous avatar say that all humans achieve the first 3 stages of life, and we live in order to ahcieve the 4th. A medium once told me that we live in this life to learn to love. We are also four-dimensional creatures in the new-age who see three-dimensionally.

Is this all making sense? I actually have 10 more pages of this thread to read... oh boy.

P.S. I would like that dangerdorkdoc!

-Lucas
Top   #226
MandMaud  MandMaud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
I usually just do what court card someone is by their personality, and the traits of the card, but I like the idea that the cards gender means "passive" or "active" rather than female or male. Hmmm...
The passive/active correlation with gender isn't new; look at yin and yang for example. Fire and air "masculine" and active, earth and water "feminine" or passive.
(Apols if I have misread your meaning and you knew this. )

I need to go back to what you said about this, dangerdork. I remember that I had an objection but can't get into it now without being sure of what I objected to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
Now, I'm npot sure if you know, but I think kabbalists believe that the fool is the unborn dsoul, or for me, the detatched soul, upon detatching from the divine (which we can re-emerge to), and coming to be born, in the physical body, or the "fools journey" life.
I don't know about that lot but I didn't know this about the Kabbala. I don't know much about the Kabbala. Reminded me of a Fool card I saw a long time ago, showing a naked baby, standing (looks just the age when s/he may or may not yet be toddling) gazing at a wide landscape full of promise. I could have sworn it was the Gaian but just searched images and I'm wrong... anyone know which deck this is? It's a back view of the baby in the foreground and to the left of the picture, and the view is farmland in lovely weather. Such a vivid visual memory of it but I'm wrong about where it's from!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
The root chakra is all about the physical world and survival, so that can go with origin, and it's connected to mars. The second chakra is the one of creativity, and our reactions to the world, so definitely inspiration, and venus. The third chakra is will-power and action, so with the sun, and power, YESSS!! Also, the fourth chakra works as a turning point, since it's the balance and/or connector. It could be connected to the moon, but taht could also be switched with venus. Than, transformation would be the fifth chakra, which is communication, and mercury is also a god associated with alchemy. Well, I think we're making something big in astrology, now! The sixth chakra is intuition, so very fitting, and it's planet would be jupiter. LAstly, the crown chakra, is the spirituality chakra, associated with saturn, and I geuss it could do with destiny. Well, actually, saturn is the karmic planet!
My only problem with this is that astrologically the third house is associated with Mercury (and Gemini) and the fifth with the Sun (and Leo); since there are twelve houses they can't be correlated exactly to any set of seven, but Jupiter (ninth house) and Saturn (tenth) are still in the "right" order in your parallel, but the 3rd/5th thing is bothering me.

Dangerdork, I *also* need to go back to what you said about the planets. I'm getting afraid this is too much for me to keep up with. I read at medium speed but I have so many things on my kindle, and an ADHD attitude to going through them - pile my plate at the buffet rather than one course at a time. But each time I come back to this theory I get all excited about it once again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
Now, let's looka t why seven is so important
Also, we go through life stages/phases which "turn" every seven-ish years. (Someone, does that fit with the transits of a particular planet? I know Saturn takes about 29 years to make his circuit but I can't remember if Mars is 7... unless the seven years are about Saturn's "quarters"?) I've observed this with my own sons at seven and fourteen, so far; and looking at my own personal development and people in general. There's a very definite change in awareness around 6-7 years, and the one we all know about around 12-14. And so on. Coincidence that most university students graduate - and are let loose on the real world - the year they turn 21? And so on. A friend laughed at this idea and said it probably works when you're expecting it to () but I know, as one example, that Type 1 diabetes sets in most commonly around the age of 6-7 or puberty; I don't think it's the only medical condition that does.
Top   #227
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
OMG, you got me! ... I think you've trapped every unsuspecting victim who happens to come across this thread.
Thanks for the very kind words, Lucas! I do hope that students of tarot find the same sense of excitement and discovey that I did when the original concept came to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Prince of Cats View Post
So, here's my sevens thoughts:
The root chakra is all about the physical world and survival, so that can go with origin, and it's connected to mars. The second chakra is the one of creativity, and our reactions to the world, so definitely inspiration, and venus. The third chakra is will-power and action, so with the sun, and power, YESSS!! Also, the fourth chakra works as a turning point, since it's the balance and/or connector. It could be connected to the moon, but taht could also be switched with venus. Than, transformation would be the fifth chakra, which is communication, and mercury is also a god associated with alchemy. Well, I think we're making something big in astrology, now! The sixth chakra is intuition, so very fitting, and it's planet would be jupiter. LAstly, the crown chakra, is the spirituality chakra, associated with saturn, and I geuss it could do with destiny. Well, actually, saturn is the karmic planet!
This part of your post really resonated with me - chakras are one area of esoteric thought that I've not explored very deeply, but you make me feel that the tentative connections I was drawing make sense.

As I've been developing the deck, I've been incorporating a lot of RWS associations, some mythic and a few alchemical ones, but I really need to pay closer attention to chakras, Kaballa, Tree of Life, Astrology, etc. I really need to chart it all out. I think Rodney took a closer look at some of that stuff years ago.. I wonder if it's somewhere in his famous PDF?

I hope to hear more of your thoughts when you've finished the thread, Lucas.
Top   #228
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rwcarter  rwcarter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandMaud View Post
Reminded me of a Fool card I saw a long time ago, showing a naked baby, standing (looks just the age when s/he may or may not yet be toddling) gazing at a wide landscape full of promise. I could have sworn it was the Gaian but just searched images and I'm wrong... anyone know which deck this is? It's a back view of the baby in the foreground and to the left of the picture, and the view is farmland in lovely weather. Such a vivid visual memory of it but I'm wrong about where it's from!
That's a discussion for Tarot Decks, not Using Tarot Cards. Feel free to start a new thread over there to figure out what deck you're remembering.
Top   #229
Lucas Prince of Cats  Lucas Prince of Cats is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandMaud View Post
The passive/active correlation with gender isn't new; look at yin and yang for example. Fire and air "masculine" and active, earth and water "feminine" or passive.
(Apols if I have misread your meaning and you knew this. )

I need to go back to what you said about this, dangerdork. I remember that I had an objection but can't get into it now without being sure of what I objected to.


I don't know about that lot but I didn't know this about the Kabbala. I don't know much about the Kabbala. Reminded me of a Fool card I saw a long time ago, showing a naked baby, standing (looks just the age when s/he may or may not yet be toddling) gazing at a wide landscape full of promise. I could have sworn it was the Gaian but just searched images and I'm wrong... anyone know which deck this is? It's a back view of the baby in the foreground and to the left of the picture, and the view is farmland in lovely weather. Such a vivid visual memory of it but I'm wrong about where it's from!


My only problem with this is that astrologically the third house is associated with Mercury (and Gemini) and the fifth with the Sun (and Leo); since there are twelve houses they can't be correlated exactly to any set of seven, but Jupiter (ninth house) and Saturn (tenth) are still in the "right" order in your parallel, but the 3rd/5th thing is bothering me.

Dangerdork, I *also* need to go back to what you said about the planets. I'm getting afraid this is too much for me to keep up with. I read at medium speed but I have so many things on my kindle, and an ADHD attitude to going through them - pile my plate at the buffet rather than one course at a time. But each time I come back to this theory I get all excited about it once again.


Also, we go through life stages/phases which "turn" every seven-ish years. (Someone, does that fit with the transits of a particular planet? I know Saturn takes about 29 years to make his circuit but I can't remember if Mars is 7... unless the seven years are about Saturn's "quarters"?) I've observed this with my own sons at seven and fourteen, so far; and looking at my own personal development and people in general. There's a very definite change in awareness around 6-7 years, and the one we all know about around 12-14. And so on. Coincidence that most university students graduate - and are let loose on the real world - the year they turn 21? And so on. A friend laughed at this idea and said it probably works when you're expecting it to () but I know, as one example, that Type 1 diabetes sets in most commonly around the age of 6-7 or puberty; I don't think it's the only medical condition that does.
Well, the more I look at it, it looks like every mystic, esoteric, or whatever has their own "thing". I'm very into the chakras, but not very much a astrology person. I try not to dwell into that, and just trust others on that. But, I'm pretty sure, the sun is very fitting for the third chakra.

Also, yes, I know yin-yang is a thing! That's why I did it like that!
Top   #230

 





 


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