Quest/5/Wands/Swords both Defeat?

[dancer]

Hello....

This question came up on a list i am on. It sparked a question that i had been wondering about for a while, but had not asked.

Why in the Quest Deck, are the 5/Swords and Wands both label Defeat.

Now i know, i am asking this question before consulting the Compass Guide to the Quest Tarot. But, I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

thank you
darrell

 

[Macavity]

I don't have the deck myself, but I'm pretty sure that most (if not ALL) attributes for this deck are based on Haindl's Tarot. Mr. Haindl essentially used the Thoth's keywords for his minors but made a few changes. In some ways they are "better" than Crowley's ones's (No... actually IMO they're not! )

But it just gets so horribly confusing! If I thought I could do a neat job, I'd be tempted to REMOVE all keywords from *any* of my own decks. (Except perhaps for any Thoth decks)

5 Swords: Crowley - Defeat; Haindl - Defeat (WTG - sic!)
5 Wands: Crowley - Strife; Haindl - Conflict (Hmmm... Okay)

I guess we now have a third alternative...

Macavity

 

[Majecot]

I have this deck, and I agree, If I had my way I would wipe off all of the key words., (off all my decks)
I would hazard a guess that the only person who really knows why they are both labeled the same would be Joseph Martin.

In reading his definitons of both cards, I would say that conflict or challenge would probably be a better keyword ( if there had to be one) for the 5 of wands.
I don't look at this card as defeat, but more of a challenge or competition.
I have Haindl, and tho I do not read with it, my friend and I did a card by card comparison with Haindl and Thoth, and and it seems to be a fair mix between the styles (with some RWS included).

Personally I thought it was either an error on the publishers part, or he ran out of keywords

 

[mingbop]

i thought the same--that it was a printing error. to me the 5 wands is a struggle or contest---the 5 swords is a state of mind.

 

[mysticalowl]

I have now been using the Quest for some time and agree that the 5 of wands is more a challenge. The 5 of swords is more about internal defeat. I have even seen it come up as giving up all hope.

Hope this helps.

It would be interesting to find out why they used the same label. Honestly, I am not crazy about having the labels on the cards to begin with. I've trained my eyes to just ignore them in the readings I do.

 

[Majecot]

I
It would be interesting to find out why they used the same label. Honestly, I am not crazy about having the labels on the cards to begin with. I've trained my eyes to just ignore them in the readings I do.

I agree, I would prefer having no keywords, and doesn't it just figure two of my favorite decks have them. I find that they get in the way.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

Good Question

Yeah I thought the same thing, but I just remembered the Waite definition for 5 wands and saw it as a challenge. I actually think that it was a printing error? But atleast you know what they mean now.
Lucille