Wands - Air or Fire

[Dinen]

Hello, recently I read an interesting essay about the history of tarot. The author mentioned a very interesting idea, that the Waite, as a member of the Golden Dawn Order, was bound by the oath of secrecy so he changed elemental correspondence of the suits of wands and swords.
I have to admit that sometimes I have no problems to change elements of these two suits. And some spreads really inspire me to do it.
I would like to know your opinions on this issue. Thanks.

 

[Hooked on TdM]

Thankfully there is no set way that it has to work. I use what works for me, based on the actual seasons on where I live. Wands to me are air and thereby the fall. They are made of wood (they give off air, they breathe.) It is the only suit made of a living thing, when in it's natural form. Also in order to destroy it with fire, it needs air to feed the fire. It also fits with the Autumn season, as here we have an amazing blaze of colours on our trees. It is the trees that I most closely relate with Autumn. All our leaves turn colours then fall, but not without giving us a show of a lifetime! So they too, transform in this season, just as the Batons (wands) do as they progress from Ace to King.

Swords are fire and the summer season. Swords are forged in the fire. They are hot, they burn, just as our Sun does when not careful. Swords are also built for an action and Summer is all about action here. It's such a short season that everyone is on the go trying to jam in as much as possible. (Swords is my weakest correlation in this, but all the others are so strong they have no choice but to accept summer! lol)

And on and on my suits go.

Hooked

 

[BusyBee]

This is an issue that has been present in my symbolism studies, but seems to not be an issue for my readings in practice. It does tend to confuse when I help with readings, as I use the less-common style.

Generally you will find the Swords to be Air and the Wands to be Fire**. This is relatively common throughout most decks whether RWS/GoldenDawn based or not. I can see the basis for the association in this method, and do not think that they were switched for discretion.

One of the theories on the RW deck and the specific symbolism used was that the cards were able to be used as flash-cards in the G.D. training. You can look closely at the symbols and you will find they are both simplistic and not hidden. This concurs with the idea of flash-cards and helping initiates associate certain symbols with the steps of initiation and other systems like numerology, Quabalah, and astrology. Because of the inclusion of the symbols that were so ingrained in the G.D., there is no reason to think that Waite would have swapped one of the associations. If that were the case it would be a very confusing teaching tool.

On the idea of the deck being constructed with Wands as Fire and Swords as Air, there is cohesion. Generally when we speak of a wand, we think of our desires, wants, creativity, and passions. When we think of passions and desires we correlate the spark of life, and hence fire. This is representative of the will to live, and the idea of the spark of life; and though it is an idea (creative thought = wand) it is also a spark of passion (passion = fire, life).

(Note to serious Quabalah (or Kabbalah) studiers: this is a loose correlation to the four worlds concept, and is solely intended to demonstrate that the G.D. and Waite systems are aligned with the suits/elements connections in the tarot. Yes, I am well aware that the Four Worlds of Quabalah are very much deeper than this superficial explaination)...
To quote a website that I randomly selected (because others have put this into words and I don't need to):

*1)...the Four Worlds in Kabbalah. In the First World, we first receive a Divine Spark or Idea. In the Second World, we Contemplate the Idea. In the Third World, we Formulate a Plan. Finally, in the Fourth World, we Take the Action Steps necessary to bring that Divine Spark all the way through our Tree of Life into physical manifestation

The first world (WANDS) correlates to Fire, passion, desire, beginning of life. If you think of fire, it is eager to consume, live thrive and change. Fire is the beginning of the journey.
The second world (CUPS) correlates to Water, and our emotions and feelings as we contemplate the world around us, how we will interact as we pursue our desires. Water isn't the issue here, but note that it brings forth the idea of currents, the ability to make changes (not the changes themselves), and the fluidity associated with emotions.
The Third world (SWORDS) connecting to AIR is about putting together a plan, the tools you need, and the knowledge associated with realizing your desires. The sword is obviously a tool for getting things done. Additionally, you see in many pips that there is a lot of playing, training, and learning associated with the swords, but not much in acquisition. The sword requires intellect to use, and intellect is almost always associated with air.
The fourth world (PENTACLES) connects to Earth, the physical and real manifestation; and making real the ambitions and ideas that have been worked on. In the fourth world one makes things, takes action, and produces concrete results of the work previous.

This all points to the correct correlations of the RWS and Golden Dawn based decks as having a serious basis for the connections of Fire to Wands and Air to Swords. It tends to lessen the idea that they were switched on purpose.


I will second post about the other method, I don't want to risk a pc crash at this point...
To be continued.

*1)http://www.clair-ascension.com/kabbalah.html

 

[BusyBee]

Firstly, Hooked, thanks for your seasonal correlations which work with the "second" system. I haven't ever really though about correlating my suits in any other way than progressive seasons. You are certainly outside the bun... er, Box. I'd like to hear more on this from you.


Now the second system, if you could call it that, differs in the wands and swords with a reversal. The basis for this is NOT quaballistic as the GD based decks are. The basis for this is NATURAL, and often referred to as Pagan. In fact, my Pagan Tarot, and many other witchy tarot use this system. It is just as valid as any other system.

The Wands represent an idea. This wisp of intellectual spark is typically represented in natural followings as AIR. The idea is easily blown about, and can be lifted high up or settled down by the environment. We see this in lots of pips of both systems where the wands don't have a connection to anything physical, they are carried about, lying around, played with, and so on. This is the whimsy that sparks our imagination, but not in the fire sense.

Cups then represent our emotional attachments to the idea that has sprung up. Not only can our emotions shape the idea, but the idea can shape our emotions as wind shapes and builds the waves that move tons of sand overnight on a beach. Like the fluid that is water, it can be shaped by ours and others' ideas (air) but also become very powerful in change that can be made, and can decide whether or not our passions (fire) are put out or left to be made.

Swords become our tools. Tools in the sense of swords are forged by fire. In this sense our tools, plans, and decisions are either hardened or can melt away when put to the test of the fire of passion. Believe it or not, this suit can hold as much in the way of love and hate as cups, more so, because it represents passion that has survived fluid emotions and wispy ideas. Swords are capable of making the physical change in a way that only fire as an element can. While watery emotion can sweep up sand, fire can remove a forest and blacken the sky as it rages on. Fire can cut down the earth element, but is requiring of air to live and makes water as a product. As so will your swords represent swift directed change that needs a reason to proceed as well as creating emotions in its wake.

Pentacles are out physical realization of our goals. They are our earthly manifestation of the non-material aspects of idea, emotion, and change. Through all of the shaping we have done, we have created something. Note that earth is well able to be shaped by air alone, but water requires air or earth to move it for change, and fire requires earth to devour and air to breath. While Pentacles and Earth are the end of the journey, they are also the beginning. Earth itself can block or shape the air's currents, the water's direction, or the fire's hunger. This is the real manifestation, the ability to create something that will make a difference in the next course of the elements.


As a Witch of the Green Path, this system resounds to me most, and I often use it in lieu of the other. I don't limit myself to this thinking, though and do use the G.D and Quaballistic correlations when I feel they are pertinent. I do feel strongly that when the journey of the pips is put into perspective with the natural system, it become more adaptable and all the meanings become intertwined. I find the Quaballistic system to be more rigid, ehich can be very useful as well.

My reccomendation is to understand both systems, and use both regardless of the deck. You will know and feel which system fits the situation, and sometimes both will expand your reading.

 

[Hooked on TdM]

Firstly, Hooked, thanks for your seasonal correlations which work with the "second" system. I haven't ever really though about correlating my suits in any other way than progressive seasons. You are certainly outside the bun... er, Box. I'd like to hear more on this from you.

Sorry I didn't see this until now! I just posted my whole correlations today. It's here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=1592445#post1592445 It's on page 12.

Hooked

 

[Thirteen]

The basis for this is NOT quaballistic as the GD based decks are. The basis for this is NATURAL, and often referred to as Pagan.

Actually, at least as many Pagans have Swords as Air (Atheme to the East, Air) and Wands as Fire (the wand to the South, Fire). So you see, there's nothing "natural" about the opposite--if there is, then you're suggesting that Pagans who have swords/air and wands/fire are being "unnatural." They're not. It's simply how different traditions choose to view the symbols--and it doesn't matter one little bit which of those traditions is older/newer.

I suspect that this interesting idea is bogus. Yes, Waite did have GD secrets to keep and did put things in the cards that he never explained, most of which we know about (they didn't stay secret) and most of which had to do with alchemy, but the Sword/Air and Wand/Fire wasn't a deliberate mix up to keep those secrets. If it was, then Crowley's deck would have been Wands/Air and Swords/Fire because Crowley kept nothing secret about the GD and got everyone mad at him for being so free and open with the mysteries (Crowley's deck has Swords/Air and Wands/Fire--and Crowley was nothing if not a thorough scholar of esoteric history and global, magical traditions).

But so what? Imagine if you knew, for a fact, that Waite had Swords/Air and Wands/Fire, no argument, no question. Would that keep you from seeing and reading Swords/Fire and Wands/Air? Would that keep certain deck creators from designing their tarot cards with Swords/Fire and Wands/Air?

I suspect not. And in the end, that's all that matters. In the end, the decision on which is going to be which does not rely on Waite or Crowley or the GD or whoever made up the very first Tarot Deck. What element goes with what suit is entirely up to the creator of the deck and/or the reader of the deck and what feels right to them. We've had many threads on this subject and in the end it always comes down to that. You can trace the history of paganism, Quabala, the Golden Dawn, the Tarot back far as you like--in the end of all this historical and theoretical discussion, it always comes back to "This is how *I* personally view these symbols. This is what feels right to me."

And no one needs any more justification than that to read the Swords/Wands as Air/Fire as they please. In twenty years of reading tarot, I've rarely met any reader who was swayed to change their view on which element belongs to Swords/Wands because of some unprovable historical theory about the tarot or because someone else had equally valid arguments for seeing them the other way.