What date for Gringonneur Tarot in France

[le pendu]

I'm wondering if anyone knows when "The Gringonneur Tarot" is first historically mentioned as being in France?

thanks,
robert

 

[Ross G Caldwell]

I'm wondering if anyone knows when "The Gringonneur Tarot" is first historically mentioned as being in France?

thanks,
robert

1698 - A brief description of what are undoubtedly these cards appears in the Diary of Lister to Paris. He mentions a visit to Roger de Gaignières, who owned the cards, and says that he saw cards (paraphrasing from memory) "300 years old, the way cards were originally, which were three times larger than normal cards and had Emperors, Popes etc."

Thierry Depaulis found an undated note in the Gaignières archives, in which he lists all the cards, as well as those of those of the pack now known as the "Anonymous Parisian Tarot" (or "Tarot of Paris") which he also owned.
Roger de Gaignières died in 1711, leaving his collection of antiquities, prints, etc. to the Royal Archives, later to become the Bibliothèque nationale.

I believe the first time a good description of the cards appeared was in the early 19th century - I have some notes on this which I can dig up if you are interested.

But 1698 is considered the earliest attestation of the cards in de Gaignières' possession. Where he found them is unknown. Depaulis, who has done the most research on them, does not know.

 

[le pendu]

Thank you so much Ross!

This is exactly what I was looking for. If it is not too much trouble, I'd love to know anything more about the deck... whenever you have time.

best,
robert

 

[le pendu]

I wonder if the Noblet and/or Vieville was part of the same collection left by him??

robert

 

[Ross G Caldwell]

Hi Robert,

I wonder if the Noblet and/or Vieville was part of the same collection left by him??

I don't think so. If memory serves, he only had the "Charles VI" and Parisian tarots. The slim literature on the Noblet and Viéville gives no hint as to how they ended up in the Bibliothèque nationale, or who their previous owners were.

Thierry Depaulis would surely know, or know who to ask.

I must say I am extremely frustrated today. My filing system has finally gotten out of control. I have five crates of file-folders with photocopies, notes, letters, essays, and other research, approximately 200 file-folders, and I cannot find the one with all the Gringonneur information. It cannot evade me for long, but how time-consuming!

 

[venicebard]

1698 - A brief description of what are undoubtedly these cards appears in the Diary of Lister to Paris. He mentions a visit to Roger de Gaignières, who owned the cards, and says that he saw cards (paraphrasing from memory) "300 years old, the way cards were originally, which were three times larger than normal cards and had Emperors, Popes etc."

This is fascinating. Is it your understanding that they were of the Marseilles type? I would expect them to be, unless I misunderstand. (TdM has always been 'mainline' to me, the original type.)

 

[le pendu]

Hi venicebard,

The "Gringonneur" cards are also known as the "Charles VI" cards.

This is a great link with blow-ups of the cards:
http://expositions.bnf.fr/renais/arret/3/index.htm

And our modest friend Ross also has written about them here:
http://trionfi.com/0/e1/15/t.html

best,
robert

 

[Rosanne]

Ooooops I posted in the wrong thread- well I never! (before)