When 5 natal planets are Retrograde and both nodes....

[franniee]

Hi Guys,

I am trying to understand a chart of someone who has 5 retro planets in it and both nodes are retro as well. The planets are Mercury, Mars, Uranus, Pluto and Neptune.

The Rising sign is Taurus.... and Jupiter conjoins it 6 degrees after, the sun 19, venus 18 and Merc 17 deg are conjoined in Aries. Mars 9, Uranus 11, and Pluto 14 are conjoined in Virgo. The moon is in Cancer. Neptune is on the DSC 5 degrees before it.

I was trying to figure this person's personality and tendencies. How do I view the retro planets..... like during a merc retro would the subject be less logical or would their thinking be muddled? What would be Mars Retro attributes? Would Neptune Retro make the person see through veils easier? I doubt that because I see no evidence of it.... in fact the person likes to put veils on....


Thanks

 

[Minderwiz]

Firstly the nodes are ALWAYS retrograde (at least the mean nodes are and for this post it's not worth considering the difference between mean and true nodes)

Secondly the outer planets are very often retrograde and many of those that use them tend to discount any retrograde motion. 42% if the population have Uranus retrograde, 43% Neptune retrograde and 44% have Pluto retrograde. As the probabilities are not independent, the chances will not be a lot lower for two or more. Mercury retrograde is found in 18% of natal charts, Jupiter 33% and Saturn 37,5%.

Retrogradation might be against the 'natural' flow but it is reasonably common, and 5 retrogrades (including the outers) is not uncommon.

That being said to find Venus or Mars retrograde is not common with figures of 7.7% and 9.6% respectively.

Traditionally retrogradation is ONE sign of weakness, that weakness may well be counterbalanced or even totally removed by other strengths - essential dignities, house placement, etc. So retrogradation had to be considered along with many other factors.

Modern Astrologers are more hung up on retrogradation. Partly this is due to them dropping many of the essential and accidental dignities/debilities and thus place far too much weight on it, literally for lack of balance.

A weak Mercury MAY exhibit problems with logic and problems with muddled thinking (though Mercury rules a lot more than communication and rational thought and a weak Mercury may show up in other ways). You might also remember the accidental role of planets in a chart - If a weak Mercury rules the MC, what might happen in terms of tenth House matters?

As modern Astrology is more black or white in terms of looking at the planet and only modifies that look through aspects and placement, retrogradation becomes seen as a thwarting, diversion, mis-direction, or reversal of purpose. So take care with your interpretation - even with using a modern approach, you can still try to look for signs of strength or weakness and make an overall assessment of the planets.

 

[dadsnook2000]

Who cares . . .

I don't bother with retrogradation of the outer planets. They are where they are for such long periods, moving at such slow speeds, that they don't (for me) signify much of a difference in how I would interpret a chart. As we move inward I tend to be more discriminating, especially for Mars, Venus and Mercury. Dave

 

[franniee]

Firstly the nodes are ALWAYS retrograde (at least the mean nodes are and for this post it's not worth considering the difference between mean and true nodes)

Secondly the outer planets are very often retrograde and many of those that use them tend to discount any retrograde motion. 42% if the population have Uranus retrograde, 43% Neptune retrograde and 44% have Pluto retrograde. As the probabilities are not independent, the chances will not be a lot lower for two or more. Mercury retrograde is found in 18% of natal charts, Jupiter 33% and Saturn 37,5%.

Retrogradation might be against the 'natural' flow but it is reasonably common, and 5 retrogrades (including the outers) is not uncommon.

That being said to find Venus or Mars retrograde is not common with figures of 7.7% and 9.6% respectively.

Very interesting! Thank you for this. So the subject is in the 9.6% grouping.... I wonder how many of those also have mercury retrograde?

Traditionally retrogradation is ONE sign of weakness, that weakness may well be counterbalanced or even totally removed by other strengths - essential dignities, house placement, etc. So retrogradation had to be considered along with many other factors.

Modern Astrologers are more hung up on retrogradation. Partly this is due to them dropping many of the essential and accidental dignities/debilities and thus place far too much weight on it, literally for lack of balance.

A weak Mercury MAY exhibit problems with logic and problems with muddled thinking (though Mercury rules a lot more than communication and rational thought and a weak Mercury may show up in other ways). You might also remember the accidental role of planets in a chart - If a weak Mercury rules the MC, what might happen in terms of tenth House matters?

This person's weak mercury rules the 2nd house.... Gemini and I think the 5th house.... Virgo although the 5th house begins in Leo.... and ends in Libra. The MC is 01Aquarius. I know you were making an example....

As modern Astrology is more black or white in terms of looking at the planet and only modifies that look through aspects and placement, retrogradation becomes seen as a thwarting, diversion, mis-direction, or reversal of purpose. So take care with your interpretation - even with using a modern approach, you can still try to look for signs of strength or weakness and make an overall assessment of the planets.

I must say I wasn't aware I was taking a modern approach. I actually was just winging it.

This is a person I have trouble being around. I thought if I could examine her chart I could understand what was going on.

I can ignore the outer planets and I agree with both of you about them but before I do so I just want to say I mentioned them because it is interesting to me that there are so many Rx planets and on the whole that would indicate something to me.... although I'm not sure what I see someone who is out of sync and uncomfortable in their own skin. I think all of the retros are like stops in the flow.... not sure, but intuitively I see it that way.

Now if I just concentrate on the merc and mars retro... I can see trouble with communications, feelings of being misunderstood, tremendous inner dialogues but truly a misunderstanding of situations, her interps are always skewed, not just with me but with others as well. I can see odd ideas, odd ideals, a very repressed person, inhibited, someone who holds onto misconstrued ills, someone who can't handle competition.

There isn't a softness in this person. There isn't any warmth.

You guys know me.... I want to see patterns. I want to see logic.

 

[franniee]

OK now I have the exact time. I had a feeling when looking at the chart this morn that the time was wrong but now I have ..... it puts her as a libra rising - which makes more sense. The MC is Cancer, the moon is in leo.... Uranus Mars and pluto are conjoined and in opposition to Saturn.

Mercury and Mars are still retro.

Her ASC and MC are square.

 

[FaireMaiden]

Would you be willing to post the actual birth data of this person? No names of course.

 

[franniee]

Would you be willing to post the actual birth data of this person? No names of course.

I'll PM them to you.

 

[franniee]

So here is the interesting thing. I saw this person during the merc Rx period and everything was fine. Her normal personality traits weren't present. She was friendly and as pleasant as she can be. I do believe that Merc Rx periods are the only time when she will be ok to me.

I know how weird that sounds but it is what it is.