Fibonacci and the Tarot trumps : a conjecture

Namadev

ATS publishes an exciting essay of 'Laurent Faber' still in progress.

http://association.tarotstudies.org/taros/1_faber.html

I did appreciate this thesis.
Quite documented on many points.

Nevertheless, concerning my theory, the author seems aware only of :

http://trionfi.com/0/a/01/03/

He is nevertheless invited to read carefully the followings :

http://trionfi.com/0/a/01/01/

http://trionfi.com/0/a/01/02/

I would also suggest :

http://tarot-fr.com/recherches.htm


About the Golden Ration, may I recall :
http://bougearel.blog.lemonde.fr/category/platonisme-et-pythagorisme-
tarot/


Cordialement


Alain Bougearel

http://bougearel.blog.lemonde.fr
 

jmd

The paper was written some time ago (as in about the time that Namadev and I wrote some of our own thoughts on the matter nearly two years ago now) - and realise that I have not uploaded the completed pages (thanks Namadev).

It remains one of the better papers that brings to light certain considerations on the matter, and would invite (indeed, welcome!) rejoinders to his paper (as well as new submissions) for this year's issue of Taros: the Journal for Tarot Studies (deadline: 15th March).
 

Fulgour

Fibonacci questions

Does La Roue de Fortune plus Force equal Le Monde?
 

venicebard

jmd said:
The paper was written some time ago (as in about the time that Namadev and I wrote some of our own thoughts on the matter nearly two years ago now) - and realise that I have not uploaded the completed pages (thanks Namadev).

It remains one of the better papers that brings to light certain considerations on the matter, and would invite (indeed, welcome!) rejoinders to his paper (as well as new submissions) for this year's issue of Taros: the Journal for Tarot Studies (deadline: 15th March).
I take it you refer to the paper Namadev refers to below:
Namadev said:
ATS publishes an exciting essay of 'Laurent Faber' still in progress.

http://association.tarotstudies.org/taros/1_faber.html
If so, it contains the following statement (I respond in pieces, not having the ability to read the entire paper at one throw):
Faber said:
. . . The earliest correspondence between the 22 letters and the first 22 numbers 1 to 22 dates from an invention of Michael Stifel in 1532. So, we may assume that the number 22 that Boiardo used for his poem in relation to the trumps was not borrowed from the Kabbalah, not even from the Jewish counting system as based on the Hebrew alphabet to which it otherwise would hold only extremely external relations, namely only the incidental resemblance of the bare number 22 stripped of all the mystical, magical, or alphanumerical connotations.
While his approach is very learned, he is wrong in this particular. If the hypothesis of Robert Graves concerning the two hidden letters in ogham (palm and mistletoe) extending this to a 22-letter tree-alphabet, the argument for which is very strong, then the known correspondence in medieval Irish literature of letters of the alphabet to the numbers zero through 16 can clearly be seen to have extended all the way to 21, with 17-21 simply kept a close secret (yet easily recoverable from the corresponding trumps and underlying straightforward logic).

Though Graves is the only source I have unearthed thus far for the existence of this numbering system in Ireland, its existence in Wales can at least be confirmed by its presence (among other, variously skewed letter-orders) in The Barddas of Iolo Morganwg, however maligned a source this last may be. And since the symbolic connexion between number and letter becomes clear by this method -- and its link to the ancient cult of Apollo apparent in the god's name forming a calendar (A the 1 extra day, P the 7 days in a week, O the 4 weeks of L=14 + L=14 days in a month, unified by omega into a N=13-month year) -- the idea that it formed the backbone of insular Keltic poetic tradition seems to me well-grounded, and this refutes (whether he is aware of it or not) the above statement.
 

venicebard

In the above post, I did not, of course, quibble over whether we are talking 1-22 or 0-21, though conforming to tarot would mean the latter, not the former, as far as I am concerned.
 

Ayumi

Originally posted by Venicebard
I respond in pieces, not having the ability to read the entire paper at one throw.


Yes. Mr. Faber's paper is rather densely packed, and requires a slow careful read. It took me a few sittings as well.

Please don't let that put anyone off reading it. Mr. Faber has some interesting ideas, and it is worth the effort. :thumbsup:

Does anybody know when we can expect the rest of the article to be posted?


Ayumi
 

Bat Chicken

jmd - please let us know here when you do... The article is fascinating...!
 

jmd

I think I accidentally deleted the newer html version... just going to have to redo it from the pdf - there's a couple of other things that need my attention first, but I should finish it by the weekend (not sure how I did that!).
 

venicebard

venicebard said:
I take it you refer to the paper Namadev refers to . . . (I respond in pieces, not having the ability to read the entire paper at one throw):
2nd Installment. In part B the article states:
Faber said:
The first section (of social estates) can extend from 5 to 5+3 trumps (1 to 5 and 6 to 8). The second section (of human conditions) can begin with 3+5 cards (6 to 8 and 9 to 13), or it extends to a 3+5+3 trumps (6 to 8, 9 to 13, and 14 to 16). The third section (of cosmological or eschatological estates) may begin with 3+5 trumps (14 to 16 and 17 to 21), or contracts to just the last five trumps (17 to 21).
This alternation between 3 and 5 reminds me that these two numbers represent, in the deepest layer of Hermetic science and Qabbalah, Temple-pillars Jachin and Boaz, respectively, death and birth (last and first letters of ogham), the only two runes that retain their tree-names (yew and birch). Jachin is the spine, while Boaz is the front column of the body, broken off at the sternum to allow the womb to enlarge.

Then he concludes with the mystery of the balance through Force:
[1] 1+1, 2+1, 2+1, 2 ← 1 → 2, 1+2, 1+2, 1+1 [1]
Yet here, what we see is merely the pattern imposed on the trumps by the interesting cohesion of 2-5-8-11-14-17-20 all being religious symbols, which I hadn't quite realized till I read this, having not thought of the Star as religious (silly me). But yes, the matrix of the trumps certainly is the spiritual symbols 2-5-8-11-14-17-20, with Force as fulcrum or mirror.

He ends up by extolling the virtues of the balanced view (through mirror XI), which as I see it has little or nothing to do, in the end, with Fibonocci. However, the trumps do delineate profound science, of which his series forms part: I have always taken the ending at XI to be related to this series, as well as the fact that the creature residing beneath the World (the Devil) is XV, both on the central vertical axis of reality's wheel. Moreover, VIII Justice is also on this axis, being what rules the World (i.e. the law of cause-and-effect or karma). Indeed the fact that V and III and II are not on the central vertical axis has a very simple explanation: they are the sign of the knower in the thinker, the sign of the thinker in the doer, and the sign of the doer in the doer, respectively, and the self is out of balance. Finally, I LeBateleur is the central vertical axis in a sense, being the center of the wheel of the doer and the upward impulse thereon (as alef, the silver fir, the eagle [in Egyptian] climbing to great heights, the ox [in Semitic] powering the pump pulling water up from the water table to irrigate the land). Even LeMat is in one sense 'on' the central vertical axis, as it represents the shoulder-level horizontal atop the triad pointing down (water's primordially, though air's in astrology) when this is seen as having R to the outside (toward nature) and L to the inside (toward self), symbolizing right and left (being the only two non-nasal liquids).

Interesting (to me at least) that the only three in the Fibonacci series not properly balanced on the wheel of the doer (and Cauldron in which it sits) stand at the signs of the three parts of the self.

Much of interest in the article so far, but rather wordy, and a bit stretched in logic methinks.