I think I need help

[SkadisPhoenix]

OK, so for the past three or four years, I have believed in the Celtic Gods. THat is not going to be changing any time soon, but I've found it so hard to learn more about them, and I have no idea how to worship them either. I have an altar, which is mainly for me to do my tarot/oracle readings on, but I want to be able to express my beliefs with more understanding.

I have looked on websites, and have gotten so confused, I've tried to find books in Waterstones and other book stores, to no avail, and I honestly have no clue where to go from here, and I know that I need to learn more, that I need to have a better comprehension of the Deities that I believe in.

This conviction only got stronger when I was driven home from the hospital by my housemate's Pastor, who spent the entire journey and then another 20 minutes in the car park lecturing me about how I was allowing the Devil into my life, how I am poisoning myself and my housemate with my beliefs, and that the only way that I shall regain my health is by turning to Christianity. He actually made me cry, he was so aggressive about it. I just laugh it off most of the time, but this time, after a hospital visit and an argument with my friend, I couldn't deal with it. And I tried to explain how important my beliefs are, but couldn't explain WHY, and I need to have that ability, and be able to explain some of the history too.

Can anybody recommend sources, or offer any sort of help?

 

[Starshower]

So sorry to hear how you've been treated and can imagine how low & alone you must feel.
((( SkadisPhoenix))) I have been interested in the old Celtic gods too - having been married to an Irishman who was taught lots of the old myths & legends at school - lucky him!

I can personally recommend the Order of Bards, Ovates & Druids, or OBOD, as a growing organisation which has no doctrines / dogmas, but works with the Celtic deities (and others) a lot in its storytelling, its songs, poems, ceremonies & rituals. It has a very open-minded, open-hearted acceptance of everyone's different personalities, beliefs & tastes, and has vast heaps of info on all Celtic deities, besides on many kinds of spiritual, practical, ecological, educational & sheer fun topics. Their spokespeople are extremely articulate, clear and user-friendly, and often appear (or are heard) on tv & radio. Druidry is now a recognised religion, along with other neo-pagan practices like Wicca, Heathenry etc.

You might like to look them up & delve into what they have to offer online.
OBOD have correspondence learning courses, open rituals & seasonal celebrations for everyone & anyone in public places (often ancient sacred sites), regular members' meetings in Groves around the country - & world; camps, conferences in Glastonbury, music to download or listen to on pagan & Nature-based themes, etc. I've been a member for over 10 years, though I haven't kept up with things lately, due to pressing personal stuff; but my many friendships with Druids from all walks of life stay with me.

There is just sooo much to discover, learn & share with like-minded people nowadays! Hope you find what you're looking for - enjoy the Quest!
Brightest Lughnasadh / Lammastide blessings to you. /l\

 

[BodhiSeed]

Just my two cents SP.... Instead of trying to just read about them in books, try relating to them. Burn some sage, leave out a stone beside a pond or river, or tie a ribbon to a tree branch as an offering. Ask each one that you feel drawn to if they will guide you on your path.
If you are looking for structure (and can't find or afford a teacher), you might trying following the curriculum of the AODA (not to become a druid necessarily but to give you some ideas):
http://www.aoda.org/curric.html
I don't have a collection of books on the Celtic gods, but I do know RJ Stewart and John Matthews write a lot in this area. I'm sure others will come along and advise you in this!

 

[Glass Owl]

I'm so sorry to hear about this. It is such a shame that some narrow minded people go out of their way to push their beliefs on people, going so far as to corner them when they are weak, vulnerable, and alone. I often have the Bible thumpers hounding me at the bus stop because they know we can't leave the stop and they figure we're "down on their luck." They sit in their cars with their religious tracts, watch for us, and then dive in as if we are prey.

This pastor doesn't sound like he is actually interested in having a honest debate with you, nor will he really listen to anything you say. In his mind, the devil has his hooks in you and you are not thinking clearly. Which is why he think he should be doing the thinking for you. Same thing goes with the housemate.

Please remember that you don't need to prove ANYTHING to this pastor or your housemate. You are entitled to believe or not believe whatever you want. You have a right to follow your own spiritual path and you don't have provide answers to anyone.

So getting into a debate with either one of doesn't sound like it is going to get you anywhere. They have only one objective in mind - converting you. Your energy would probably be better spent working on your own healing, doing the things that make you happy, and learning about your own spiritual path.

As others have suggested, I think that being receptive and listening is an important first step. Being near trees and water may also be of comfort and help you connect. And if you can't get outside much what about bringing some of the outdoors inside? A bowl of pine cones, a few pebbles. Or maybe drawing a bath with rose petals or lighting some incense (I love cypress and sage) would help with that.

And when you get some books on the subject, you may enjoy reading them outside under the trees -and away from your housemate, who sounds like he has an aura of negativity and fear. If things continue being uncomfortable, you may want to consider alternate living arrangements. Especially if you fear that the housemate and/or pastor are going to one day decide that it is okay for them to burn your spiritual items to remove the "poison" from the home.

 

[amethyst57]

This conviction only got stronger when I was driven home from the hospital by my housemate's Pastor, who spent the entire journey and then another 20 minutes in the car park lecturing me about how I was allowing the Devil into my life, how I am poisoning myself and my housemate with my beliefs, and that the only way that I shall regain my health is by turning to Christianity. He actually made me cry, he was so aggressive about it. I just laugh it off most of the time, but this time, after a hospital visit and an argument with my friend, I couldn't deal with it. And I tried to explain how important my beliefs are, but couldn't explain WHY, and I need to have that ability, and be able to explain some of the history too.

push what they have said out of your mind...they have to accept you for what you believe, and just shut up...what they are doing is creating negativity inside you, making you doubt these beliefs you hold dear...
get some kinda negativity amulet....ask your spirit guide about what path, not people who will do that to you...maybe ask whatever celtic god/goddess for guidance on the right path, the one that helps with healing, or even angels...
sometimes we have to keep mum about our beliefs for our own peace of mind....
that's why a lot of us are on here...to comiserate, and to find others who will go on our journeys with us...

 

[Carla]

If I were you I'd get the bus next time!

My advice is, if anyone tries this on you again, perhaps you could gently but assertively say, 'I would prefer to talk about something else,' and then start talking about something else. If the other person persists, try something like, 'I have said all I intend to say on this matter and I would really appreciate it if we ended the conversation now.' And I suppose, if they continued, I would be completely straightforward and say, 'It was very kind of you to offer me a lift, but if you insist on saying these things that are offensive to me, I would like you to pull over let me out and I will make my own way home.'

But then, I'm a middle-aged woman and don't care anymore who I tell to kiss my butt.

To connect with your gods, have you tried asking them? Try a meditation or journey in which you earnestly ask them to reveal their natures to you. Or however you want to word that.

 

[Starshower]

Goodness, I've learned something here. I had no idea there were 'ancient Druids' in America! I thought the indigenous first nation peoples practised their own spirituality, but were killed & suppressed by the invaders, much as the Romans tried to stamp out our governing judiciary - the king-making, peace-making & educating Druids, Ovates (healers & mediums) & Bards (repositories of history, legend, song & story.) There seems to be quite a lot of overlap with native American culture in deep respect for the land, sea & sky ... & in living and working with (rather than against) Nature.
Here in western Europe there has been a huge resurgence of interest in the beliefs & lifestyles of our ancient ancestors. Well-known & respected UK writers on our indigenous Celtic & Druidic beliefs are Philip Carr-Gomm, John & Caitlin Matthews, Penny Billington, Emma Restall-Orr & Professor Ronald Hutton, Kristoffer Hughes ... all of whom I know or have met personally, and can vouch for their good scholarship besides their easy-going, friendly, fun approaches. There are many experiential workshops & open ceremonies besides talks, podcasts and books. The actual OBOD course can be started at any time and worked through with the help of a personal tutor, and one can practice alone or find friends all around the uk quite easily. Of course, there are other ways of connecting with Nature and sharing experiences too ... try Googling key words about what most appeals to you. (I don't mean to push OBOD on you as if there's nothing else!)

Please don't let this 'pastor' & the housemate hassle you, invade your privacy or verbally harrass & threaten you by scare-tactics from their 'religion'. This is bullying of a very unpleasant nature (talk of 'devils' etc indeed!) & if it continues after you've asked them to stop, you have grounds for formal complaints.
Good cheer to you, & may fortune and nice new friends smile on whichever path you choose!

 

[BodhiSeed]

Goodness, I've learned something here. I had no idea there were 'ancient Druids' in America!

From their website:
"The Ancient Order of Druids in America is a modern Druid order drawing its inspiration and many of its teachings from the Druid Revival of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. We don't claim direct descent from the original Druids - the priestly caste of ancient Britain, Ireland, and Gaul, which went extinct around twelve hundred years ago - and to be honest, we're skeptical of any group that does make that claim. Instead, like other modern Druid groups, the AODA evolved out of a three-hundred-year-old movement, the Druid Revival, that found the fragmentary legacy of the ancient Druids a powerful source of inspiration and insight, and drew on a wide range of sources in shaping a nature spirituality to meet the challenges of today."

I'm not trying to get you to join anything Skadis, I was just offering an example of a structured program that was free.

 

[DaisyDragonfly]

The OBOD is very good...but they won't spoonfeed anything. Thing with the Celtic gods is this: we don't know a lot about the original worship. Bits of writing, archaelogical interpretation: that's it. So you might want to look into Celtic Reconstructionism, where people look at evidence and existing folk practice. It's scholarly and interesting.

What do you mean by 'Celtic'? The OBOD focus on the Welsh pantheon, so the focus of their learning (at the beginning at least) is the Mabinogion. If you haven't read that yet, you should. Read the story of Taliesin and Ceridwen and meditate on the transformation. Read about it. Read what other people have said about it. It's a starting point... but, again, you won't be told what to think about, just ways of engaging with it.

Irish Celtic? Again, read the existing stories if you haven't already. Read about Irish Folk Magic, Folk Traditions: that'll get you linked into worship pathways.

Celtic English? (I'm thinking Sulis, Brigantia, Andraste, Rosmerta and so on). Er, I don't know. Sulis is reasonably popular and I've found some literature about her, but less about the others, almost nothing about some.

Or are you thinking of linking Wicca-type practice to a Celtic pantheon? In many ways, that's easier. Read about Wicca, about worship practice and adopt/adapt to yourself and your gods. Check out the meetup website, see if there's likeminded pagans in your area - talking to other people is always helpful. There are a couple of good pagan groups, as well, who are very helpful when it comes to networking - Pagan Federation and Children of Artemis spring to mind.

As to the vicar: it's his job to say such things. He truly believes what he said. *Shrugs* Doesn't mean he's right. He sees the world - and god - in one particular way. You see it differently. You've experienced differently. That's the trouble with arguing religion: it's experiential and it's personal. If you're looking for proof, you won't find it, except in your own experience. So forget about what he's saying, and about what other people have experienced, and give yourself opportunity to talk to the gods. That's the only assurance you'll need and, once you've had it, nobody else can touch you.

Further reading? Ronald Hutton's a good place to start. Triumph of the Moon gives you the history of modern paganism, Stations of the Sun gives you information about the ritual year in Britain. This'll give you some idea about how pagan worship developed and evolved over the years. I'll echo Starshower's recommendations, too. There's a lot of rubbish out there masquerading as Celtic history: good authors, plus the source texts themselves (where possible) are the best place to develop your knowledge.

Good luck And enjoy it! Go out into the land, walk amongst the trees and by water. That's where our gods live - still - and though they can be quiet, and small, they're there and waiting. Worship can be as simple as saying hello, then waiting...

 

[Milfoil]

Hi Skadis - lots of good advice already and I doubt my comments will be much different.

Why were you being given a lift by the pastor in the first place? What kind of relationship does your housemate have with their pastor? Did they engineer this 'conversion' speech for your benefit when you were confined to the car and outnumbered?

Rarely is it worth arguing over especially with clergy unless you happen to be with an open minded member of the clergy who truly does want to expand their understanding of the world. There are a few but they are rare.

Bodhiseed makes a good point - the Gods and Spirits are there to influence and guide us, to be heros and heroins, role models, teachers and support. You could see this car trip as a horrible event or as a test of your integrity. Did you pass the God's test and stay true to what you believe? Then again, this doesn't mean that you should, necessarily overlook the positive aspects of the bible either.

With regard to the Gods, it is through our interaction with them that we truly start to understand who they are and our relationship with them. Without monopolising the thread or your question, I have had several incredible experiences where just sitting and being, accepting and noticing the messages has brought me closer to one particular deity.

Ask for a dream, look for the subtle signs in daily life, observe a day of the week which may be special to a deity, find an association (flower, plant, animal etc) which you can use to honour the deity. Ask, in your heart and mind, what you can do to bring them into your life, to understand and honour them. Then learn to see the messages.

As far as explaining this to others, personally I would only do this if they ask and clearly the Pastor did not ask or want to know. Your words would be wasted. However, when you are happy, balanced, comfortable with your own beliefs and enjoying the benefits that come from that place of balance, nobody like this will phase you again. You won't need to explain your beliefs, you will be living proof of them.