Magic Circles - study group?

[Tanga]

The only thing I can think of regarding the Buckland shoulder thing is that a person starts in the centre, facing W with their right hand pointing to N, then one turns on the centre spot so you can better see the circle you have cast...but then I wonder if he starts at N.

No idea.

Another possibility you've raised is casting circles from the outside. So maybe when one only needs/has a small area to work in, one could put objects on the table for instance and cast a circle around them.

Where's the maybe? Work with what you have yes?.

Going back to your other posts you've also brought up something I was going to get to later on - "the rest of the rigmarole I usually include in a circle casting - Calling/welcoming the quarters in some way - and if specifically needed, invoking a Deity."

So maybe let's find out some more...

Do people use a script they've learnt from a HP or book?
Or make up their own?

I use my own when alone, and some bits I've found I really like out of books (they're all short - I don't like to go on forever, and I like to be able to easily remember things).
In a group I would use whatever format the group has agreed on.

Here's a circle casting I like that I sometimes use:
"Black spirits and white, red spirits and grey, harken to this rune I say.
I conjure this circle of power, that it be the interface between Gods and Men.
Great ones, spirits of the hour, forge it with protective power"
(I modified it a bit and I can't remember what book I got it from).

Here's the beginning of my quarter call:
"Earth of the North, Deep rifts of the Savannah, Mountains of the sun & moon.
Guardians of strength I call you here, Empower my circle with endurance..."
and so on.


~***~
N.B. If I am being "structurally correct" (on my own I don't follow a full structure most of the time. I do it when I have a specific theme/ritual), or were directing a group...
I would follow:

OPENING
1) Prepare.
Set up the room, ground by visualisation/chant, align/empower by visualisation/chant.
2) Purify.
The objects on the Altar, then the space and aura with LBRP (modified Morningstar version) or incense, sound,
etc.
3) Cast the circle.
4) Call the quarters.
5) Invoke the Deity.

CLOSING
1) Banish the Deity.
2) Banish the quarters.
3) Unwind the circle.

What deities/godesses/gods/angels/elementals/other are people calling? (And to which points?)

For specific themes this differs - as I'm eclectic.

My 'default' for the quarters are as above, speaking to the elements in the landscape/nature.
My 'default' Deity, which I call after the quarters, and who would have a representative object on the Altar if there was one - is my patron Nun/Naunet (from the Egyptian Ogdoad - Deity of primordial chaos), and I have my own chant to address hir (Androgynous).

Wicca groups will usually use a polar duo - male and female. Depends on the group and their "tradition".

A great little book I can recommend for constructing Deity invokations is:
'The Gods Within' by Jean Williams and Zachary Cox. It's pocket sized and after I read it - I always know how to construct a formal Deity address. Lol. (Jean passed away this last Christmas 2015 - on Christmas day).

And a lovely book I can recommend for a Wiccan practice overview, which is modern eclectic or "progressive", so not Alexandrian/Gardinarian, is:
'Magic Without Peers' by Ariadne Rainbird and David Rankine.

Do people using Hebrew worry about the pronunciation?

I have no idea how to pronounce Hebrew and no idea how to use it - so no, I wouldn't.
I believe one should understand what one is saying in order to put intent/meaning behind the words. If I were desperate to use Hebrew - I'd visit my Jewish friend in NW London and ask him to tutor me on the specific text (and luckily he'd be happy to oblige).
And I would imagine that originally - when other languages were used, the users were scholars of those languages, and so knew what they were saying...

I may and do, use short phrases from Latin, Italian, and even old Egyptian (and no-one knows how to pronounce that now.) - if I'm sure what the phrase means. Italian I'm familiar with, as that's my mother's mother tongue. Latin, I can usually look up or find someone to help.

 

[earthair]

Here's a circle casting I like that I sometimes use:
"Black spirits and white, red spirits and grey, harken to this rune I say.
I conjure this circle of power, that it be the interface between Gods and Men.
Great ones, spirits of the hour, forge it with protective power"
(I modified it a bit and I can't remember what book I got it from).

Here's the beginning of my quarter call:
"Earth of the North, Deep rifts of the Savannah, Mountains of the sun & moon.
Guardians of strength I call you here, Empower my circle with endurance..."
and so on.


~***~
N.B. If I am being "structurally correct" (on my own I don't follow a full structure most of the time. I do it when I have a specific theme/ritual), or were directing a group...
I would follow:

OPENING
1) Prepare.
Set up the room, ground by visualisation/chant, align/empower by visualisation/chant.
2) Purify.
The objects on the Altar, then the space and aura with LBRP (modified Morningstar version) or incense, sound,
etc.
3) Cast the circle.
4) Call the quarters.
5) Invoke the Deity.

CLOSING
1) Banish the Deity.
2) Banish the quarters.
3) Unwind the circle.




For specific themes this differs - as I'm eclectic.

My 'default' for the quarters are as above, speaking to the elements in the landscape/nature.
My 'default' Deity, which I call after the quarters, and who would have a representative object on the Altar if there was one - is my patron Nun/Naunet (from the Egyptian Ogdoad - Deity of primordial chaos), and I have my own chant to address hir (Androgynous).

Wicca groups will usually use a polar duo - male and female. Depends on the group and their "tradition".

A great little book I can recommend for constructing Deity invokations is:
'The Gods Within' by Jean Williams and Zachary Cox. It's pocket sized and after I read it - I always know how to construct a formal Deity address. Lol. (Jean passed away this last Christmas 2015 - on Christmas day).

And a lovely book I can recommend for a Wiccan practice overview, which is modern eclectic or "progressive", so not Alexandrian/Gardinarian, is:
'Magic Without Peers' by Ariadne Rainbird and David Rankine.




I have no idea how to pronounce Hebrew and no idea how to use it - so no, I wouldn't.
I believe one should understand what one is saying in order to put intent/meaning behind the words. If I were desperate to use Hebrew - I'd visit my Jewish friend in NW London and ask him to tutor me on the specific text (and luckily he'd be happy to oblige).
And I would imagine that originally - when other languages were used, the users were scholars of those languages, and so knew what they were saying...

I may and do, use short phrases from Latin, Italian, and even old Egyptian (and no-one knows how to pronounce that now.) - if I'm sure what the phrase means. Italian I'm familiar with, as that's my mother's mother tongue. Latin, I can usually look up or find someone to help.

Oooo I'll check out those books
I notice you 'call, invoke and banish'- how do you feel about 'opening up a space, inviting and releasing' versus more forceful methods? Or maybe that's just a turn of phrase!
I know the old argument says that if you summon them, they might arrive grumpy, but if you invite them, they might decide not to come at all.
Which all depends if the inviting person is summoning entities figuratively rather than actually summoning a spirit. I'm going to come back to this when I get all the images of various things together.

We also might discuss cleansing/purifying before circles while we're here. I like highpitched bells ....and literally cleaning/hoovering the area first...as the saying goes, cleanliness is next to godliness

 

[Tanga]

Oooo I'll check out those books
I notice you 'call, invoke and banish'- how do you feel about 'opening up a space, inviting and releasing' versus more forceful methods? Or maybe that's just a turn of phrase!

Same difference isn't it? Depends what you feel comfortable saying and what your intent is when you say it (and people use language in different ways).
However - and this again varies with person - if one is "less forceful", it can be that one may
be extending doubt/lack-of-confidence into the equation. Sort of like undermining oneself.
For example - if one was a Magician calling up a demon - one would "command", full stop.
Because in this instance, "inviting" is giving the other end more room to play in.
Not recommended. (not recommended from our stand point of how we perceive demons.
Ofcourse, if one thinks they are one themselves, then that would be perfectly OK I'd imagine. It's all in the psychology).

One might be more inclined to "invite" a Deity - if looking at them as "more powerful than yourself, and could crush you under their heel" - type-of-thing. Here you may want to be meek (which spills over from a patriarchal religion I think... the more "do this for me or I won't offer/sacrifice to you/currying favour - is a more "pagan" approach.)
But at the same time - as a Pantheist - I am to some extent calling those powers forth from myself. So I want to be bold and say YES, BE HERE NOW! (affirming my own inner authority) - rather than "oh, maybe, if you want to..."
Do you see what I mean?
It depends.
I would advise a beginner to be forceful - because they'll likely have a lack of confidence anyway...

We also might discuss cleansing/purifying before circles while we're here. I like highpitched bells ....and literally cleaning/hoovering the area first...as the saying goes, cleanliness is next to godliness

Yes. Clean and tidy the area.
Then - I have a gong, or tibetan bowl, or tingshas... or a 'sistrum' I made myself.
If I need to be quieter - a small single brass bell, or a bunch of tiny brass bells (I LIKE brass . I'd have a brass wand if I could find one. . I have brass pentacle, chalice and athames).
OR a wrattle. I proudly have a golf-ball-sized, skull shaped one, that glows in the dark...*giggle*
or a small African gourd with shells strung to the outside...(for a proper "ethnic" or Voodoun/Santeria vibe - yes?)


No tools? - can clap in the corners or sing.
And use a an egg cup (W), a round plate (E), a kitchen timer (A) and a pair of scissors (F) to represent the 4 quarters?... haha couldn't resist that!


BUT MOSTLY in my tiny little room when I'm trying to be very quiet at midnight - I'll use my
little aluminium tuning fork. It's 3.5inches long (fits in pocket) and light (found it on google once).

I don't often do the incense thing as I'm sensitive to smell. And sage bundle smells a bit like weed.
And my mother is asthmatic so...

 

[earthair]

Same difference isn't it? Depends what you feel comfortable saying and what your intent is when you say it (and people use language in different ways).
However - and this again varies with person - if one is "less forceful", it can be that one may
be extending doubt/lack-of-confidence into the equation. Sort of like undermining oneself.
For example - if one was a Magician calling up a demon - one would "command", full stop.
Because in this instance, "inviting" is giving the other end more room to play in.
Not recommended. (not recommended from our stand point of how we perceive demons.
Ofcourse, if one thinks they are one themselves, then that would be perfectly OK I'd imagine. It's all in the psychology).

One might be more inclined to "invite" a Deity - if looking at them as "more powerful than yourself, and could crush you under their heel" - type-of-thing. Here you may want to be meek (which spills over from a patriarchal religion I think... the more "do this for me or I won't offer/sacrifice to you/currying favour - is a more "pagan" approach.)
But at the same time - as a Pantheist - I am to some extent calling those powers forth from myself. So I want to be bold and say YES, BE HERE NOW! (affirming my own inner authority) - rather than "oh, maybe, if you want to..."
Do you see what I mean?
It depends.
I would advise a beginner to be forceful - because they'll likely have a lack of confidence anyway...

'calling those powers forth from myself' yes exactly.
Magic circles are the unique fingerprint of the person who made them- they are all the hopes, beliefs, intentions and thought processes of the person, laid out in a nice organised way.

IF, and it's a big IF, I was a magician invoking demons I would definitely want to be in charge of when and how they came, and where they manifested. Which brings me nicely on to one of the most fascinating and beautiful magic circles from the Lesser Key of Solomon. With a special place/holding bay for forcibly summoned or invited visitors

 

[Tanga]

IF, I was a magician invoking demons I would definitely want to be in charge of when and how they came, and where they manifested. Which brings me nicely on to one of the most fascinating and beautiful magic circles from the Lesser Key of Solomon. With a special place/holding bay for forcibly summoned or invited visitors

The "Triangle of Realization". (quoting Donald Tyson from "Portable Magic")
Or - the lovely little prison into which anything invoked should hopefully be contained - outside of the cosy protective circle in which the magus stands.
LOL.

How cute is the snake.

 

[earthair]

My thoughts/interpretations of this arrangement are-

1. The snake starts in the East but coils anticlockwise and presumably this means the circle is cast anticlockwise also to follow the direction Hebrew is written in? Inspiration here for casting circles up off the ground to form an upsidedown cone of casting -like a snake sitting on top of a pile of its own coils. [Has anyone tried casting circles with live snakes?!]

2. Room for ones disciples? It's only 9ft across?

3. The notes specify triangle outlined in black, 3 names outside the triangle in red, centre circle in dark green. Is the green for grounding or calming influence?
I like AC's coloured variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goetia#/media/File:Goetia2.jpg

4. Possibilities to add 3 more triangles of manifestation at each main compass direction, totalling 4. I'm sure I've seen this somewhere but I can't find a picture at the moment.

 

[ravenest]

Years back I stuck up some pics in this forum somewhere . They show inside a home made temple, a goetic set up, altars, full equipment ( the box of perfume, the box of torment, the 'Holy Fire' wand, dagger, etc a 10 stage sephirothic altar , the circle , the triangle of evocation outside the circle, and several photos taken at different stages.

Some thread titled , what does your altar look like , or something like that.

I noticed a couple of comments here questioning things about size. One thing I have noticed is that many writings about this seem to be just postulations based on other writings, because if they actually tried to set up and do the whole thing, according to their instructions, like I tried, they would realise it didnt work.

Eg, a 9 ft circle is not going to be able to contain the stuff described, nor fit any 'disciples' in it (as noted) and allow free working .... it would end up more a scene out of the Three Stooges. Even preps and equipment making contain the same probs. I did nut them out, all up with preps, making things, rewriting, adjustments, performance of the whole 3 sections (as follow up is needed ) .... took about 9 months ....


My evocation circle was based on this one , ....... oh, thats right ,

I am banned from showing anyone here pictures of any type .... so I guess the rest of what I was going to show is defunct (Its the coloured one with a Tau-shaped altar made from 10 segments for the Sephiroth .... a similar one is also made surrounded by 3 'tiles' diamond shaped used for Liber Yod .... which is, in a way, a total reversal of the ritual that is being talked about .... a 'dissolution of everything into 'negative existence' ;

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib831.html

... anyway, the point is, its a bit like designing a house;

Dont just start drawing something that looks fantastic and impressive to make people go ooooh and ahhhhh .... work out its function, what you are going to do in there, what is going to be placed in there and how much room do you need around all the objects to use them properly and move about comfortably THEN work out the rest.

Have fun !

Oh yeah .... and don't 'accidently' get possessed

 

[earthair]

lol I'll take all necessary precautions!

I don't think I have anything more to fear than manifesting my own brain- which is mostly fluff with the odd tune going around

Thanks for the link, I've been trying to skim through AC's Magick again and failing to find anything about actually casting circles.
Interesting that he goes anticlockwise- does he say why anywhere?

Reading this "Let him at each of these 24 banishings make three circumambulations widdershins" reminded me of the time I experimented with casting upward spiral circles- I ended up a bit dizzy and thought I'd best stop now because if I faint and hit my head on the TV, I really don't want to explain to paramedics why I have passed out and hit my head in a circle of candles and then set fire to the house .

 

[Tanga]

My thoughts/interpretations of this arrangement are...

3. The notes specify triangle outlined in black, 3 names outside the triangle in red, centre circle in dark green. Is the green for grounding or calming influence?
I like AC's coloured variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goetia#/media/File:Goetia2.jpg

4. Possibilities to add 3 more triangles of manifestation at each main compass direction, totalling 4. I'm sure I've seen this somewhere but I can't find a picture at the moment.

Oooh. Very pretty.
Enjoy.

Years back I stuck up some pics in this forum somewhere...
I noticed a couple of comments here questioning things about size. One thing I have noticed is that many writings about this seem to be just postulations based on other writings, because if they actually tried to set up and do the whole thing, according to their instructions, like I tried, they would realise it didnt work.

Eg, a 9 ft circle is not going to be able to contain the stuff described, nor fit any 'disciples' in it...

LOL. Hello Ravenest.

No! - leave the disciples out as fodder!

My evocation circle was based on this one, ....... oh, thats right...I am banned from showing anyone here pictures of any type .... so I guess the rest of what I was going to show is defunct

SHOCK *falls off chair* Slap your wrist a few million times ravesnest! Hmmn.
**eyes twinkling**

... anyway, the point is, its a bit like designing a house;

Dont just start drawing something that looks fantastic and impressive to make people go ooooh and ahhhhh .... work out its function, what you are going to do in there, what is going to be placed in there and how much room do you need around all the objects to use them properly and move about comfortably THEN work out the rest.

Yeah. Don't you just hate shoddy product design/plans that only "look good" ?
Or think or speak good. Lol.
(like when one turns up with beautiful candles - and the wind wildly blows them out... etc. ad infinitum.)

My kitchen's a bit like that. Other half keeps cursing and threatening to change it - except I
think it's cheaper to just get used to it (it is, as it was when we moved in).

 

[earthair]

(Hopefully) this is the circle ravenest is referring to.