Malkuth Restored to Daath

treedog

Going with the story of Malkuth "falling" from Knowledge (Daath), where would you put the Paths if all were restored? Would they have new meaning, or none at all?

I know this is a silly question, but without discipline or a nap this afternoon I drift and digress.
 

Laurel

Going with the story of Malkuth "falling" from Knowledge (Daath), where would you put the Paths if all were restored? Would they have new meaning, or none at all?

I know this is a silly question, but without discipline or a nap this afternoon I drift and digress.

I'm not completely sure of what you mean but one of my favorite ways to look at The Tree of Knowledge itself, with Da'ath at its core is the diagram associated with The Ari. I'm tossing one up just as example:

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/Ari-tree.gif

I like the metaphor of needing to pass completely out of the physical (Assiah) to Yetzirah/the astral/ (Yetzirah) to begin the journey towards Da'ath but there are several roads from there.

Am I hitting the right topic or did you mean something else completely?
 

treedog

Am I hitting the right topic or did you mean something else completely?

Yes, that's sort of the idea, with the exception of Malkuth actually disappearing from its current postion below Yesod, and of course Tau goes away too. When Malkuth is restored (from the "Fall") it moves to the position held by Da'ath. It's really just an exercise to let the mind consider new possibilities--very unorthodox I'm sure.

I'll have to brush up on my alphabet to see exactly where your glyph places the Tarots.
 

Richard

You might try something like this. Sephiroth 1 through 9 are the usual Kether through Yesod. Sephirah 10 is Daath/Malkuth. The 3 horizontal paths are the mother letters (elements). The 7 vertical paths are the doubles (planets), and the 12 slanted paths are the simple letters (zodiac signs). The idea comes from the geometrical structure of the Gra Tree. I haven't taken it far enough to see how well it works out here. ETA. You actually have much more flexibility than I suggested. Since there are exactly 22 paths, the alphabet can be assigned to them in any way you please.
 

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treedog

You might try something like this.... Since there are exactly 22 paths, the alphabet can be assigned to them in any way you please.

Thanks for your response. I know you've been working with this a long time and I'm always interested to hear your take on things. There is a moment when it seems that the paths want to present themselves in different places. I'll work with that idea you presented of elements, planets and signs.
 

frelkins

You might try something like this. Sephiroth 1 through 9 are the usual Kether through Yesod. Sephirah 10 is Daath/Malkuth. The 3 horizontal paths are the mother letters (elements). The 7 vertical paths are the doubles (planets), and the 12 slanted paths are the simple letters (zodiac signs). The idea comes from the geometrical structure of the Gra Tree. I haven't taken it far enough to see how well it works out here. ETA. You actually have much more flexibility than I suggested. Since there are exactly 22 paths, the alphabet can be assigned to them in any way you please.

I was on Lon's court card webinar the other day & asked him precisely about Da'ath - he uses the Kirschner tree like the GD. He reeeeeaaaalllly didn't want to talk about Da'ath, saying it has no place in the Tarot.

But my background is always the Lurianic tree with Da'ath as the "secret." Remove Keter and replace with Da'ath because Keter has contracted away to create room for the worlds to exist. Knowledge is not then an emergent property, but the highest level of the manifest worlds. And Knowledge must be connected to Understanding & Wisdom. ;)

So those Keter path & card assignments (however you want to make them) to my mind should go to Da'ath
 

kwaw

TreeDaathCounted.gif


The numbering of the sefiroth above is based on the principle that when Keter is counted Daath is not, and when Daath is counted Keter is not: 10 not 9, 10 not 11. (Interesting expression - one is tempted to interpret it arithmatically as:

ten not nine = 10 - 9 = 1
ten not eleven = 10 - 11= -1
and 1-1=0... Ten Sefiroth of Nothingness).

quote:

“24. Sometimes instead of Keter, Daat is enumerated amongst the sefirot. The GR"A explained that the inclusion of Keter reflects the inner aspect, while the inclusion of Daat, reflects the external aspect.

"25. This is because the quality of Keter - Great Mercy is not presently revealed. It will only be fully realized in the world to come. This is indicated by the divine name E-H-EY-E-H - "I will be," in the future tense, meaning, "I am destined to be" - after the six thousandth year of creation. Since the conduct toward the world is preparatory to G-d's ultimate intent of benefiting all, Keter, though concealed, is its underlying and motivating force, as stated in the Talmud, "Everything that the Merciful One does is for the good." For this reason, Keter is only counted in respect to the hidden inner aspect but regarding the external aspect, Daat is counted instead, since it represents that minute revelation of Keter in this world, on a lesser level. It is, therefore, centered under Chochmah (which is free of Judgement) and Binah (in which iscernments begin to arise) being a median conduct between them.

"26. All that is revealed and is known to us of Keter is that this world is preparatory to its revelation in the world to come. Accordingly, Keter is the root of all present conducts since it was G-d's original intent to reveal Keter through them - "The last deed being in the first thought."

"27. This explains the above statement that Keter is counted regarding the inner aspect, but regarding the external aspect, Daat is counted instead, and Keter is only considered the root. Keter is therefore called Ayn - Nothingness and Raysha D'Ayn - The Primal Nothingness, because we comprehend almost nothing of it. Accordingly, the GR"A states that, "revelation begins with Chochmah." The order of the sefirot would then be: Chochmah, Binah, Daat, Chesed, etc.”

End quote from The Beginning of Wisdom. A Compendium of Primary Kabbalistic Principles Translated by Rabbi Amiram Markel & Michoel Tzvi Wolkenfeld.
 

frelkins

Yes, kwaw, ty :D - but not into the Gra for this discussion. Still confused for days why no one will discuss Luria, the Ari, and only the Gra. Do you all not know any Ari or know it only through Gra?

Finally, I think tho' I may have it figured out. Please correct me if I am wrong here. . .

Actually you all may be discussing only via Crowley, of whom I am a famous non-fan. Thus you may wrapping Luria up with Grant, who I knew absolutely nothing about until quite recently, since I have zero interest in all that. ;) I just don't ever use that lens, and perhaps I've been blind to it as a factor in this thread. But perhaps you are equating Gra to Crowley, and so discuss only Gra.

So maybe people here won't talk about Luria because the dumb OTO vs. Typhon or whatever you want to call that cage match requires that Ari's model is ALL EVIL, blah blah blah? ;) This would certainly explain why when I asked Lon about it he freaked out at me. . . .which I didn't understand at all when it occurred. :D

Anyway, I think I need outta this thread because we ain't talking about the same thing at all! :) Thanks tho! (wanders out, stage left, dazed). :D
 

Richard

Was Crowley into Gra? I thought he was Kircher. :confused:
 

Aeon418

Was Crowley into Gra? I thought he was Kircher. :confused:

He was probably aware of different Tree's, but used the Kircher Tree in his own work because of the necessity that (a) human consciousness, (b) the universe, and (c) the path of initiation, be represented by one common model.