Olympic Tarot (8) - climbing slowly the Olymp


Ho, ho - the desinterest in this group is really remarkable .... :) ... well, at least the Muses get something to laugh about. If I get one, who understands something ... okay, it's worth the deal. It's an Olympic Game.

What's the point? Here again. that is the scheme, that resulted:

Poseidon ---- Zeus ---------- Hades
Eos------------ Helios -------- Selene
Perses -------- Asterios ----- Pallas
------------------------------------------- <--STYX
Prometheus-- Atlas --------- Epimetheus
Leto ----------- Menoitios --- Asterie
Demeter ------ Hera --------- Hestia

And that's astrology in connection to it:

18 -------------- 17 ----------- 16
Aquarius ------ Jupiter ------ Scorpio
= Poseidon = Hades

15 --------------- 14 ---------- 13
Sagitarius ----- Sun --------- Virgo
= Eos (= Helios) = Selene

12 -------------- 11 ---------- 10
Libra ----------- Mars -------- Cancer
= Perses (= Asterios) = Pallas

---------------------------------------------- Styx

9 ---------------- 8 ------------ 7
Leo ------------- Venus ------ Taurus
= Prometh. -- (= Atlas) ---- = Epimetheus

6 ---------------- 5 ------------- 4
Gemini --------- Moon -------- Pisces
= Leto (Menoitios) - = Asterie

3 ---------------- 2 ------------- 1
Aries ----------- Mercury ----- Capricornus
= Demeter = Hera = Hestia

Well .. a lot of things to understand.

What is the right row 1-4-7-10-13-16 (I called it before the "contradictious row")?
This is the female row of the zodiac, starting with Capricornus, then Pisces - Taurus - Cancer - Virgo - Scorpio. "Female" means, that this are the "female zodiacsigns" and as you can observe, they are all in row, startiung with the first winter-sign.

What is the left row 3-6-9-12-15-18 (I called it before the uniting row)?
This is the male row of the zodiac, starting with Aries, the first spring-sign. Of course, all signs are in the common order: Aries - Gemini - Leo - Libra - Sagitarius - Aquarius.

What is the middle row? This are the common planets of the Chaldean row (without Kronos-Saturn). They are ordered NOT in the Chaldean row, but in a changed Chaldean row:

Chaldean row ---------- changed Chaldean row as above

Jupiter -------------------- Jupiter
Mars ----------------------- Sun
Sun ------------------------ Mars
---------------------------------------- <-- Styx
Venus --------------------- Venus
Mercury ------------------- Moon
Moon ---------------------- Mercury

The positions of Sun/Mars and Moon / Mercury are exchanged.

Mentally I hear you protest ... :) But consider, we're reconstructing here something, which was thought and mentally constructed and relevant around 700 BC (Hesiod's time) ... the Roman Empire still didn't exist. The Roman Empire had around 200 BC and later the development of our modern astrology, the Chaldean row is a late object. Of course the Romans followed ideas, which already were older (just like we see in the Tarot pictures which are much older than the Tarot). Understood? I can't change that ... it's a recontruction ...

I hope you understood, that the order folllows a scheme ... btw. a scheme, which in the later astrology was used as "reigner of the zodiac-signs". Perhaps you remember:

Aries - reigned by Mars
Taurus - Venus
Gemini - Mercury
Cancer - Moon
Leo - Sun
Virgo - Mercury
Libra - Venus
Scorpio - Mars
Sagitarius - Jupiter
Capricornus - Saturn
Aquarius - Saturn
Pisces - Jupiter

That's common astrology, still living today.

Now transport that in the given scheme:

18 SATURN - x - 16 Mars
15 Jupiter - x - 13 Mercury
12 Venus - x - 10 MOON
9 SUN - x - 7 Venus
6 Mercury - x 4 Jupiter
3 Mars - x - 1 SATURN

Saturn 1+18 =19
Jupiter 4+15=19
Mars 3+16=19
Venus 7+12=19
Mercury 6+13=19
Sun+Moon 9+10=19

Kronos-Saturn, in myth meaning the begin and edges of the olympic world, reigns in the system the start and end of the system (1+18). Moon and sun, that "planets", which reign only one sign in the zodiac, we do find precisely in the middle (9+10).

You've to remember, that the Greek started the year with the month of August, that is with Leo, and ended the year in Cancer.

Well, all is "only" a scheme, a mathematical scheme, and you can control now, if the individual results meet the mythical reality, as you know it:

18 Poseidon = Aquarius ... I guess, you've no problems
17 Zeus = Jupiter ... I guess, you've no problems
16 Hades = Scorpio ... I guess, you've no problems
15 Eos = Sagitarius - SMALL PROBLEMS
14 Helios = Sun ... I guess, you've no problems
13 Selene = Virgo ... SMALL PROBLEMS
12 Perses = Libra ... SMALL POBLEMS
11 Asterios = Mars ... SMALL PROBLEMS
10 Pallas = Cancer ... SMALL PROBLEMS
9 Prometheus = Leo ... SMALL PROBLEMS
8 Atlas = Venus ... BIG PROBLEM
7 Epimetheus = ... BIG PROBLEM
6 Leto = ... SMALL PROBLEM
5 Menoitios = ... SMALL PROBLEMS
4 Asteria = ... SMALL PROBLEMS
3 Demeter = Aries ... BIG PROBLEMS
2 Hera = Mercury ... BIG PROBLEMS
1 Hestia = Capricornos ... BIG PROBLEMS

Well, I count 4x really no problem and 6x BIG PROBLEM and the rest SMALL PROBLEMS.

Let's solve the small problems first:

15: Eos = sagitarius. Eos, as explained already before, has the meaning CHANGE in contrast to her brother DAY (Helios) and NIGHT (Selene). Also she has the general meaning "Birth of sun" as the red Aurora.
Sun is generally born at Christmas, winter-solstice. Winter-solstice is preceded by sagitarius. One of the mythic partners of Eos is Tithonos, a man, who can't die but get's weaker and weaker. Who is Tithonos? He is the sun and he is the sun of the old year. The Sun of the old year is in Sagitarius. Naturally ... a sun can't die, but each year it becomes weak again.

Another myth sees Eos in love with Orion, but the love isn't fulfilled. Artemis - also in love with Orion, but also disappointed - brings her brother Apollo - that's the "young sun" and the "young sun" is born at winter-solstice after the death of the old year (that's Tithonos, who never dies) - to shoot an arrow on the head of the swimming Orion, who is just occupied to escape a great scorpio. What is that telling? Scorpio, that's the astrological sign Scorpio, which is followed by Sagitarius, who shoots with arrows and one of his arrows meets the head of Orion. The HEAD.

Eos has another love with a man of Athen and his name is Kephalos. And Kephalos means "HEAD". This Kephalos killed his wife in a similar manner as Orion was killed.

Eos = Sagitarius is correct. She doesn't have the bow, but Artemis has it. Artemis, the "young Moon", takes the place of Eos later. The crescent of the moon is her bow. Artemis was in the astrology of Manilius attributed to Sagitarius.

Explained? Well, Greek mythology is complicated and subtile.

13. Selene = Virgo
The Moon generally has more than one position in the system. Selene as night (or "missing light" or "state of missing sun") is the logical counterpart to Helios ("sun is present") and Eos ("sun in state of change"). In this specific condition Selene is the "Virgo" - the unwritten story.
But the 5th main position tells the story of the sun, the story of the moon is written on the 2nd line. Selene is also there, but then she has children - 50 daughters of the eversleeping Endymion, who is somehow "mortal" (below the Styx matters are concerned with mortality). She is not "Virgo" there, she is the Moon with its dreams. Endymion is just another mask of Menoitios - who was thrown in the Tartaros. "Man in the womb".

A later "Virgo" is Persephone, daughter of Zeus and Demeter, made to his wife by Hades in a famous action. See the scheme:

............. Zeus Hades
............. ........ Virgo
............. ........ ........
............. ........ .........
............. ........ .........
Demeter ......... .........

Hades and Demeter oppose each other in the scheme. Persephone as "Virgo" is near to Hades. Virgo in astrological symbolic is associated to grain or corn - that's Persephone. In te Manilius-astrology Ceres-Demeter is attributed to Virgo.

There are other "later Virgos" in Greek mythology. The theme was used in different stories. The Prototype is Selene, the "night". Persephone, the corn, has to be planted in the dark ground (= night), that you've something to eat next year. That's the basic story.

12. Libra = Perses.
Perses doesn't have much mythology. But the Position (4th line = "dark") and "uniting row" (= positive), gives a "dark wisdom" and that's a sort of "Iustitia". The quality is fulfilled by Themis.

Asterios = Mars. Asterios is one of the lovers of Eos (main lover); Mars is one of the lovers of Aphrodite. Asterios reigns in the night (which is the time for sexual love), Ares (= Mars) presents a dark force. Mars is the vital force - his function is complex.

10. Cancer = Pallas. A Cancer is armored. Pallas is a warrior. His wife is Styx (cause he has the position, which follows Styx).
The 4th main line is "dark" (contrast to the 6th Olymp-line) and the key-idea is "motion". This means "fight and justice".

9. Leo = Prometheus. Promotheus brings the "fire" to the mankind. Leo is in "hot summer" and is reigned by the sun (= "fire")

6. Gemini = Leto. Gemini means "twins". Leto gets twins.

5. Moon = Menoitios. The Moon constantly falls in the Tartaros - all 4 weeks again. Then it is hidden (again).

4. Pisces = Asteria. Asteria get's a daughter - Hekate and then Zeus wants something from her and she escapes by dropping into water and becoming an island. "dropping in water" - she becomes a fish" and the fish an island. Why does she drop in water? She's near to Position 1-3 and that once had been Oceanos-Tethys.

Well, that were the easy problems. Still there are:

8 Atlas = Venus
7 Epimetheus
3 Demeter
2 Hera
1 Hestia

Difficult, difficult.

Huck (on earlier considerations of autorbis)


(9) Getting tired - Olymp doesn't run away

Desinterest kills ... dear Tarot community.

The Olympic Tarot needs heroes ... not lurkers.

Perhaps you doesn't understand something. Tarot in 15th century started with an enthusiasm for Greek mythology. If you go in the temples of art, you've evidence of this. If you look at the descriptions of the triumphal activities in 15th and 16th century, you've evidence of it.

Let's compare Tarot and Greek mythology:

Tarot is a humble hobby of some nobility in 15th century. It expands slowly with printing mass production and stays what it is, a minor field for artists, who occasionally also engage in playing card motifs.
In 18th century Tarot gets a kick. Somebody claims, that it is a mystery book of old Egyptia. Another one finds, that it is an useful tool for salon divination.
In 19th century Tarot evolves spiritually, somebody claims, it has something to do with Kabbala. Then - in small circles - it gets some fame that it includes some deep mysteries - mostly all this on the base of not very deep studies of the context.
The whole thing becomes more or less obsolete in early 20th century, but Tarot revives with the modern interests for occult matters. The great market is opened for the thing and produces curious phenomena.

What is Greek mythology? It manifested as dominating part of early Greek culture - which with Alexander became a world power of the early time. Greek mythology spread everywhere, manifested in temples and stories and early theatre, processions, festivities, cults etc.. The Romans took it and admired it. The Christians fought against it and called it Paganism. The Renaissance revived it. It became in modern time part of art, of operas and theatre, the themes were repeated in book productions and in Hollywood.

Comparing it in numbers: If Tarot as an influential social force in history gets 1 point, Greek mythology has to get 1000s and more.

Now I tell you about a really relevant connection between Tarot and the text of Hesiod. And you've to realize ... about 50 % of Greek mythology is connectable to the school of Hesiod ....

And what do I get? Desinterest ... dear public, you're a curious phenomen ... you study details of the Marseille Tarot, discuss spreads, divination methodes, new decks etc., you claim to be interested in "Tarot", but if I tell you of Hesiod and his relevant connection to Tarot .... I talk to walls.

Huck - in his own voice

Ross G Caldwell

I'm naturally very interested in what you're writing Huck. I guess others are too, but it is overwhelming. One needs time to digest it.

I'm writing from a remote location (in Rome :) so I don't have much time to write.



Ross G Caldwell said:
I'm naturally very interested in what you're writing Huck. I guess others are too, but it is overwhelming. One needs time to digest it.

I'm writing from a remote location (in Rome :) so I don't have much time to write.


Ah ... a voice from the distance and the clap of a single hand. poets need such things ... :) Alright, I proceed, time is short ... and you get the shortened version.


Here is another hand to join the sound of the single hand of Ross's clapping :)


jmd said:
Here is another hand to join the sound of the single hand of Ross's clapping :)

Too late ... :) poets need the "right moment"


The experience shows, that it was a somewhat dangerous act to split the energies of the earlier history forum in various chapters. Specific topics get isolated that way. Naturally it's not of interest to invest too much energies.
Probably it's of no worth to change again something ... but one should learn from that experience.