rite of passage

nexyjo

as i pass through various stages of my transition, i've been feeling the need of late to do some type of rite of passage. i discussed it with the high priestess of my coven and she agreed that if i was feeling compelled to do one, it was most probibly called for. i asked her if she felt it would be more appropriate to do it as a solitary or with the coven, and she suggested that since the changes i am going through are as much social as they are any other aspect, a ritual with the coven would seem appropriate, assuming i felt comfortable with it. i do.

of course, there are no readily available rites of passage that i can find in the pagan community resources, or even anything close, that begins to address the passing of someone who was once seen as male, to living as a female. the closest i was able to find, in concept at least, would be a coming of age ritual, where a young woman is passing into womanhood. of course, those rituals speak of fertility, and monthly cycles, and conception, and other such reproductive physical aspects of womanhood. i will never experience any of that. so again, that left me with pretty much nothing as far as a template is concerned. we are on our own in coming up with something, which actually, we both saw as a challenge.

we spoke for a while on the issues, and decided a few things. i'll have to write something - i ended up writng a poem to say during the ritual. and of course the hp will say a few words as well. she suggested that perhaps we should incorporate a butterfly motif into the ritual, as that is my totem animal. we thought that the women in the coven would wrap me up in tissue paper, like a cocoon, and i'd break out of it at the appropriate time. i thought that was a wonderful idea.

it's still a work in progress, but we have much of it ironed out. this whole process got me to thinking, and i'm wondering if anyone here can provide any insight. can anyone define, without reference to the physical, what a woman is, or for that matter, what a man is? certainly, i think most would agree that men and women differ in many areas, and they go way beyond physical differences, though for every feminine "attribute" i can think of, i can also think of men who exhibit that attribute. for example, i could say that women, as a general observation, exhibit more nurturing behaviors than men, but i do know a few men who exhibit this personality trait as well. the same goes for emotional expression (female) as opposed to logical expression (male). either gender can exhibit both, or the opposite, though as a general rule, women are more emotionally expressive, and men are more logically expressive. i've decided that perhaps it's a combination of attributes and tendencies, and probibly there is quite a bit of overlap between the genders. yet i still believe there are some defining differences between men and women, though i can't seem to put my finger on it. clearly, i know how uncomfortable i felt trying to live as a man in our society, and how much more comfortable i feel living as a woman. clearly, men and women are treated differently, by both other men and other women. so perhaps that also helps define, outside the realm of the physical, what a woman or man is, and why i feel more comfortable living as a woman compared to living as a man.

i know it's not something many of us think about. but while trying to describe "where i was", and "where i was going", words failed me - i found it quite difficult to put into words, without speaking to the physical nature of the genders, especially as it relates to reproduction. yet i also know women who through either defects of birth, or unfortunate sickness, cannot reproduce, and are not subject to monthly cycles, just like me. yet certainly, they are women, as much a woman as any other.

anyway, sorry for the long winded post. i guess i should have just asked, can anyone define for me, without referring to the physical aspects, what exactly is a woman?

luv and light,
nexy
 

Marion

Quote:nexyjo (22 Sep, 2001 05:23):
i guess i should have just asked, can anyone define for me, without referring to the physical aspects, what exactly is a woman?

luv and light,
nexy


Hi Nexy.... I am amazed beyond words at your post. You expressed yourself so wonderfully.
I agree that for every feminine trait you can define, you will find a man who seems to embody that trait. Maybe it is the person, sort of with the whole gender underneath and shining through. Each individual man or woman is both themselves and an aspect of the eternal man or woman (and an aspect of God, I think too).
 

Elphaba

I think identity is just one of those things you know. You just are what you are. I 'know' I am a woman. Even when I'm far away from my physical body I still know that I am. How do I know that I exist? I just do. If I somehow woke up with a penis tomorrow morning, I would still have this 'knowing feeling' that I was a woman. Mind you, that raises the questions: Is this because I was treated as a female from the moment I was born, therefore causing me to define myself as such? Is there a difference between being 'female' and being a 'woman'? Is 'Woman' just an archetype?? Who knows...damn...I really haven't helped have I. We can't even properly define ourselves as a species yet so maybe these questions about gender won't be answered for a long time. I just think that if we 'know' something about ourselves with every fiber of our being than how can it not be true?
I really love the tissue paper idea as a rite of passage and transformation. Good luck with it! And if you happen to find any answers please share...we're all wandering this earth searching for who we are.
 

Logiatrix

nexyjo,
i am hesitant to approach just this one aspect of who you are, when you have been so much more, as soon as i came to know your name.
what i mean is, people are "whos" an not "whats" as soon as we know that they have a name, that they love, that they fear, that they have a favorite color, or childhood memories or perhaps no memories at all.
i can more easily and readily tell you WHO nexyjo is, from my perspective. your question, however, is clearly very vital to your current journey, so i will attempt. it is quite a special privilege to somehow contribute to your passage. you have helped me a lot on this forum, and through your website, so i want to help you.
so...
"woman" is only one aspect of nexyjo, to me. i also think "wisdom" when i think of you, for you have shared much of it on this forum. you are also "nurturing", definitely--your words are very nurturing. "feeling", as you have mentioned as a distinctly female trait, is also an aspect of your own personality. you are also "fertile", keeping in mind that fertility manifests itself in many ways, and you are the creatrix of beautiful artwork. this, to me, is a form of fertility. "beauty", too, is another aspect of the woman who is nexyjo (check out those legs! :D ) you have spiritual beauty, as well as physical beauty.
:)
i know you are humble, nexy, but i speak from the heart here. hopefully, i didn't make you blush, and many apologies for not actually answering your question.
to echo others posted here, it is the whole person, the individual. i could give you a dictionary definition of "woman", but the woman who is nexyjo is so very much more.
infinite blessings in your rite of passage,
 

Rhiannon

nexy: this may sound like I'm trying to be funny, and it is funny, but I'm serious. The biggest difference I see between men and women is that women *think about what it is to be a woman!* Men don't think about stuff like that.

Ex: When you ask a man: "Honey, what're you thinkin' 'bout?" and they say "Nothing". They pretty much mean that. They aren't thinking of anything in particular.

Ex: When you ask a woman: "What are you thinking about?" She'll give you dozens of answers! She's thinking of at least 10 different things all at once! (BTW: most men won't EVER ask a woman what she's thinking, because they know this! :D )

I'm not sure if that will help you with your ritual. But that's all I got for now. Good luck, it sounds like it will be very moving and very beautiful. ((( hugs )))

Rhiannon :)
 

tarotbear

I like the tissue paper cocoon idea very much. Maybe you could also incorporate into the 'winding' aspects some of the male attributes you feel you are leaving behind - that way when you 'shed' the cocoon you will be sloughing them off. Perhaps if you underdress in something that makes you feel an your expression of your change, cover yourself in something plain, then have them wrap you in the tissue paper winding cloths. Then you break free of the paper, shed the 'old ' garment, and appear in your new guise. You could also burn the tissue paper in a cauldron afterwards and scatter the ashes , if any.

Best of luck and congrats, kiddo. Then tell us all about it!
 

nexyjo

thanks for all your replies. i'll definately agree that women often have many things going on in their heads, where men tend to stay focused on one thing at a time. it's attributes like this, that offer some confirmation of my own identity - i am a classic case of a multi-tasking personality. at work, i always do better working on several projects at once, as i can jump from one to the other, when the spirit moves me. and that is often.

and special thanks to metaz - you've made my day :)
i agree that fertility can also mean creation of art, or other things. and yeah, i suppose i do get a complement or two about my legs...

for the tissue paper, i thought that we'd use two colors - the outside blue, and the inside pink. and i suppose i'll have to not wear my usual jeans, and actually put on a skirt for the ritual - it will probibly offer even more symbolism. actually, i also have a pair of faerie wings i wore as part of my butterfly costume for halloween last year. i'll probibly put those on after i break out of the tissue paper.

i think we have about a month before the ritual is scheduled - we decided the new moon before samhain offered suitable timing, assuming the other members can make it here during the week. so we're still working out the details.

regarding defining the genders, i know, it's tough. we all have a sense of who we are regarding our gender, but putting that into words is hard. on a transgendered forum i post on, we have as much trouble trying to define what exactly we are also. in light of the responses here, i suppose it's our sense of gender that we depend on for our identity in that area, and not any preconceived definition. a feeling that helps us know who we are.

again, thanks for your insights.

luv and light,
nexy
 

blue

Quote:Rhiannon (22 Sep, 2001 12:13):
nexy: this may sound like I'm trying to be funny, and it is funny, but I'm serious. The biggest difference I see between men and women is that women *think about what it is to be a woman!* Men don't think about stuff like that. Rhiannon :)

Rhiannon;
Oh contrar dearest post pal! I appears you've been hanging with the wrong men.

Nexy;

Nexy;

I?m am expressing an individual opinion here but as I?ve grown older I?ve wrestled with the concept of reincarnation quite a bit. I believe that if we do in fact reenter this life as individual entities, we must experience both male and female lives form time to time.

Yes, there are the seeds of both in each of us. In your case the gender issue is very obvious but perhaps if you thought of the transition as the journey of one soul apart from sexuality it might help your plan your rite. If we exist to learn life lessons then I guess your soul has chosen to do a double assignment. If our essential beings are asexual, what an amazing journey yours has chosen to take.
 

Kiama

Nexy: When I first read oneof your posts, all that time ago, when I was just a newbie, I thought you were female. You just seemed female. That was it. I think that whether you are male or female greatly depends on what you feel you are. And I agree with you on the point that there are many women who cannot reproduce and have monthly cycles who are still classed as women. As the woman from Erin Brockovitch said, when she was sick with cancer which had affected her breasts and womb:

"Do you think that, if a woman's got no womb and no breasts, she's still technically a woman?" This made me think.

But I think, in the end, your rite of passage is wonderful, and may represent more your 'becoming your true self' than simply 'becoming a woman'. And I think the butterfly is a gorgeous idea, representing change and transition, aswell as being your totem animal.

I hope you enjoy your rite, and have a great time! My love will be with you during the event....

Kiama
 

MeeWah

NexyJo: Aside from the obvious physical differences between men & women which can be seen as symbolic & representative of their respective functions & roles (am not speaking strictly of traditional references here) there are differences in the expressions of energy from each gender. Both men & women can share some of the same attributes or "overlap"; however, those particular qualities associated with the male principle & those associated with the female principle do have significance in & of themelves. They each represent one half of the whole. The concept of marriage is representative of that spiritual quest for wholeness.
As far as reincarnation is concerned, one has lives as a man & as a woman though there may be a majority of lives in one gender. It may be that gender that influences the psyche; or for some other reason--such as refining the understanding towards wholeness--which does not necessarily pertain to gender as the soul is without gender.
That you have chosen to work with both genders in this lifetime is a unique "task"--a "double assignment" as Blue has said.
I see you in much the same way as Metaz does--as a beautiful soul gifted with wisdom, compassion, talent & a great capacity for nurturing & for love. You teach others those qualities just by being you--& as Metaz said, you are much more than a gender!
By whatever quirk of Karma or Universe, despite your entrance to this life as a man, it's as if your "coming of age" or recognition of "self" is connected to womanhood. You've always struck me as a woman anyway. The butterfly motif is a perfect vehicle for your rite of passage.
You need to let us know when so we can join you in spirit!