Tarot's Natal Astrological Chart

[Teheuti]

I've been reading _Cosmos & Psyche_ by historian/astrologer Richard Tarnas in which he compares the outer planetary cycles and world events.

I began thinking about what was happening with the outer planets when the tarot first appeared. I generally use the dates 1420-1440 as the probable beginning so I started with 1420. Looking only at the outer planets (including Saturn), I found a Saturn-Uranus opposition with Uranus also trine Neptune. Nothing earth-shaking. By contrast, Uranus conjuncts Pluto around 1450 (Gutenberg Press) and then Neptune about 30 years following that - but these dates are too late. I added Chiron, which Barbara Hand Clow calls the planet of the Tarot reader (healing through symbols). Chiron was exactly opposite Neptune. Now this begins to make sense.

Then I decided to look at the birth of the Waite-Smith Tarot - using December 1, 1909 as the birthdate (we know the deck came out some time in December, before the book/deck set). Here we find a Uranus-Neptune opposition as part of a Cardinal Grand-Cross with Saturn and Jupiter. Wow - that's huge!

But, when I put the two charts together (one as a transit of the other), I discovered something extraordinary. Between the two charts there was an exact Pluto return (25-26° Gemini) AND a near exact Neptune return (18-20° Cancer). Remember that Neptune opposes the 1909 Uranus and the 1420 Chiron. People get all excited about their Saturn-Returns every 29 years, but Pluto has a 240 year cycle and Neptune has a 164 year return cycle. During a planetary return a person (or culture) has to come to terms again with the essential qualities of that planet but at a whole new level.

A Pluto return suggests coming to terms with the power of the tarot and begins a new cycle of that power, but it also tears down old structures. According to Robert Hand: “The nature of Pluto is similar to that of the Hindu god Shiva, the creator and destroyer. Pluto usually begins by breaking down a structure; then it creates a new one in its place. This entire cycle of death, destruction and renovation is accompanied by tremendous powers, for Pluto is not mild or even a subtle planetary influence. (_Planets in Transit_, p. 477). This seems very appropriate for the deck which was first to have pictures on all the cards (Neptune) and become the most influential (power/Pluto) deck of its century.

A Neptune return suggests a mystical, metaphysical renewal. The Uranus opposition in 1909 may indicate the individualization of Tarot (a mystical tool for everyone) in that anybody could now read the cards, even without a book, simply by describing the pictures (Neptune).

Together, Neptune goes around 3 times for every 2 cycles of Pluto coming back to a conjunction in approximately 493 years. This is called a synodic cycle and such a cycle was completed exactly during this period.

I think this is extremely profound. It also suggests that the Triumphs (whether 16 or 22 in number or of some other configuration) may have come into being right around the summer of 1420 - although the planets stay within "orb" for a period of 3 or more years.

Personally, having looked at many charts over my 40 years in astrology, I find this the most extraordinary transit to a natal chart that I've ever seen! Any thoughts?

Mary

 

[Huck]

... ...

1909 - (22x22) = 1425

... but the Michelino deck hadn't 22 trumps.

 

[Teheuti]

... but the Michelino deck hadn't 22 trumps.

As I said above - the 1420 date may not refer to a 22 card set of trumps.

1909 - (22x22) = 1425

I realize that any fact can be mathematically manipulated to make it appear important. But, take any other two events in a thematic timeline and run a chart comparison and I think you'll find it pretty rare to come up with such a mind-blowing relationship between them. Of course it could be pure chance, but I've never seen anything like it before. The return of Pluto & Neptune to the same degrees, plus it being the conclusion of one synodic cycle is pretty darn amazing. For instance, we are coming up (around 2020-22) on the first Pluto return since the birth of America (July 4, 1776) and so there's quite a bit of speculation about what that will signify for America. Astrologically it's seen as a major event. For those who don't believe astrology has any significance then this discussion will be meaningless.

Perhaps there was a bit of luck in that the first year I looked at for the birth of Tarot (before I even thought of comparing it with the RWS) turned out to be so exciting in relationship to Dec 1909. When I get time I'll check into Court de Gebelin and 1781 - which was also the year Uranus was discovered and the American revolution ended. Anyone know what month vol. 8 of _Le Monde Primitif_ was published?

Mary

 

[jmd]

A fascinating way of discovering the birth chart, Mary, and certainly indeed significant!

I do not know the month volume VIII was released, and have not checked to see if it was mentioned in Dummett, Decker and Depaulis's A Wicked Pack of Cards.

There is certainly nothing on either the scan of the first nor last pages of the volume itself. The volume, by the way, is available online from the BN on the link that follows - for those interested even if not reading French, the tarot images are on the very last pages, as appendix past the index pages: Monde Primitif - vol. VIII (to see all volumes, click here).(His statement in the preface that this forms the eighth 'spring of the work' is not, in my view, to be taken to refer to the time of its appearance, but rather symbolically as the eighth birth in the ongoing multi-volume work)

In terms of a major pattern standardisation - one that basically comes to define tarot as we know it, perhaps another date, given its predominance in the world of tarot, should also be 1760 with the type-II Marseille-type deck of Conver - for which there may also be significant astrological considerations (the year, incidentally, De Gebelin's father died!).

 

[Ross G Caldwell]

Perhaps there was a bit of luck in that the first year I looked at for the birth of Tarot (before I even thought of comparing it with the RWS) turned out to be so exciting in relationship to Dec 1909. When I get time I'll check into Court de Gebelin and 1781 - which was also the year Uranus was discovered and the American revolution ended. Anyone know what month vol. 8 of _Le Monde Primitif_ was published?

Mary

The latest date I find noted in the book is near the end, page 599, in the censor's approval for publication -

"Approbation. J'ai lu, par order de Monseigneur le Garde des Sceaux, le huitieme Volume du Monde Primitif analysé, &c. Je n'y ai rien trouvé qui puisse en empecher l'impression. A Paris, le 9 mai, 1781."
(vol. VIII, p. 599)

(Approval. I have read, by the order of My Lord the Guard of the Seals, the eighth volume of M.P. I have found nothing there which should cause it not to be printed. At Paris, May 9, 1781.)

So the terminus post quem is May 9, 1781.

For instance, we are coming up (around 2020-22) on the first Pluto return since the birth of America (July 4, 1776) and so there's quite a bit of speculation about what that will signify for America. Astrologically it's seen as a major event. For those who don't believe astrology has any significance then this discussion will be meaningless.

I personally don't think astrology has no significance, but I doubt there is anything remarkable about Pluto's influence on the Earth. I'm a Pluto-and-minor-planets skeptic! (unless one of them happens to hit us, of course

Ross

 

[Teheuti]

I doubt there is anything remarkable about Pluto's influence on the Earth. I'm a Pluto-and-minor-planets skeptic!

Ross, thanks for the date. I'll start by composing the chart for that date and go from there. I think that publishers would try to bring out such books in early fall when the wealthy would be returning to town from the country, eager to buy books for the long winter evenings. Or even later - for the Christmans sales. Spring would be the time to buy for light summer reading. But, who knows?

As to the influence of Pluto - it's the dominant planet in my chart. Generally, it's effects are seen as slow-moving, lasting over a great period of time, but I've consistently seen it's action in my life - accurate to the day - regarding some of my biggest life changes of the sort described by its characteristics.

I use the word "influence" loosely because I don't think of Pluto as having any kind of magnetic pull on earth that directly effects me. Richard Tarnas talks about this in his book, but I don't want to get into that discussion here. The simplest approach is to think of our galaxy as an extension of the Gaia principle - a "breathing" organism in which all parts synchronistically resonate with each other. For instance, the effect of Pluto seems to have more to do with WHEN it was discovered then with the planet/planetoid itself.

Mary

 

[Teheuti]

de Gebelin Chart

I can't take the time right now to do a complete analysis but thought it would be interesting to report on the basic de Gebelin chart. I picked a date in the Fall when the aspects were strongest - October 23, 1781. We need to remember that 1781 was an extremely powerful year in general. The American Revolution ended on October 19th - so this configuration may speak more to that than to Le Monde Primitif. But it is worth looking at.

Just considering the planets from Jupiter-out including Chiron (the tarot reader's planet) we find that all, except Saturn, form a very tight pentagram:

*Place Jupiter at the top of a circle of 360°. It has just moved into Sagittarius, the sign associated with publishing, which Jupiter rules naturally.
*60° to its left put Pluto; 60° to its right put Neptune (Jupiter is sextile Pluto & Neptune; Pluto trines Neptune).
*90° below Pluto put Chiron; 90° below Neptune put Uranus (Pluto is square Chiron; Neptune is square Uranus; Chiron is sextile Uranus - closing the pentagram).
[Note: a completely symmetrical pentagram would be made up of quintiles - normally a very weak aspect that is rarely used in astrology.]

The 1781 Jupiter is rapidly heading for a conjunction with Saturn (opposing Uranus) that becomes near exact around January 1782 (and through much of that year) - adding greatly to the revolutionary fever which was building in France.

The aspects between the 1781 chart and the other two are more subtle than the first two.
*The otherwise unaspected 1781 Saturn is square the 1420 Saturn opposition Uranus (forming a T-square).
*Uranus in the 1781 pentagram lies on the midpoint between the Pluto & Neptune returns (1420 & 1909).
*The 1909 Jupiter is on the 1781 Neptune (thus aspecting everything in the pentagram).

Mary

 

[Sinduction]

That is some amazing stuff right there. The 2020 thing has got me wondering too. I do hope I'm around to see it!

 

[Minderwiz]

Like Ross, I'm not a great believer in the significance of Pluto and Neptune in Astrology but if they have any use at all it is surely in such cases as this.

There are two problems here. Firstly the charts do not show Pluto or Neptune returns (either just occurred or about to occur). In the 1420 chart both Pluto and Neptune are direct, whilst in the 1909 chart both are retrograde. In the case of Pluto the return will not occur till May 1910 (though this may fit well with the publication date of 1910 given in the frontispiece).

The second problem is one that Mary clearly recognises. That is the 'moment' of the event taking place. In the case of the publication of the Rider Waite deck, the issue could, in principle, be determined from records. Even if the records are not exact we could at least be accurate to within a month.

The problem is with the 1420 chart - what event, if any, does it symbolise? The idea is that it represents a possible 'birth' date for the Tarot but it also seems to be mainly speculative. This is quite understandable because there is a real issue relating to whether the Tarot can be said to be 'born' in the same way an individual is born or a company or other organisation.

This does not preclude chosing a date though. Even if we take the Tarot as a developmental process, there is still a strong analogy with the individual. Birth is but one event in our development - conception, maturity, marriage and death are others each of which can be charted using Astrological tools. There are of course many other events in our lives which can also be charted.

It might be better therefore, not to seek a 'date of birth' for the Tarot - because unlike human birth observers may differ greatly on what constitutes 'birth' in this case. It is probably better to go for known events in the development of the Tarot (like the publication of Rider Waite) and use them as bases for a chart.

There is also the issue of 'where' as well as 'when'. Astrology relates to events in space as well as time. In casting the charts for the events chosen by Mary, I had little difficulty in locating the publication of the Rider Waite deck in London. However, where is the 1420 chart to be cast? I used Milan as a placeholder but clearly this can be disputed.

I also used 12 noon as the time, a common practice with Astrologers when an exact time is not recorded. This throws up the interesting feature in the 1420 chart of placing both planets in the tenth house and Pluto in a fairly tight stelium with Jupiter, The MC and the Sun. This could symbolise the flowering of the Tarot if we place any value on the date. The tenth is also ruled by Mercury (Hermes) surely a good ruller for an esoteric subject.

I'm not making any claims for these charts, I cast them to try and see what Mary saw. I think the idea could well be developed but we might need clearer and more closely defined 'events' in the Tarot's development.

I'd be interested to hear any further observations Mary has on her analysis.

 

[Teheuti]

There are two problems here. Firstly the charts do not show Pluto or Neptune returns (either just occurred or about to occur). In the 1420 chart both Pluto and Neptune are direct, whilst in the 1909 chart both are retrograde. In the case of Pluto the return will not occur till May 1910 (though this may fit well with the publication date of 1910 given in the frontispiece).

I really appreciate your comments as it gives me a chance to make some clarifications. A planetary return lasts for the period during which said planet is within 8 to 10 degrees of it's starting place (although I tend to focus on a much narrower orb). So the return is in effect during the entire time that a planet retrogrades back and forth over that spot. The retrograde is simply the 2nd pass of three (a stage during the larger Return period).

When you have an exact birthdate you can be more specific - but in this case we are talking about a "trend." One that is, in fact, part of the entire early Renaissance/Revolutionary fervor - a kind of cloud out of which specific things emerge.

Several things liberated me from clinging to the "moment." Dane Rudyar's focus on cycles was one. Perhaps the most important is a Mac astrology program called IO Sprite. It allows you to see the planets in motion at any date & speed and so you can easily see aspects forming and leaving in a kind of dance around the chart. I got to know my progressions by watching, over and over again, the development of planetary relationships during the three months after my birth (symbolizes 90 years of life). Through my 35-year friendship with Ananda Bagley (Brit astrologer extraordinaire) I also looked closely at my precessions and started to see myself as a specific blip within much larger cycles of development. "I" am part of a larger dynamic.

Through reading Richard Tarnas and others who deal with the cycles of world events, I started seeing people and events as manifesting certain qualities of their time. I also saw this when doing the astrology for _Women of the Golden Dawn_. When you have the specific date/time, then any specific is like a a pot that begins boiling and you watch a single bubble coming to the top and bursting.

The problem is with the 1420 chart - what event, if any, does it symbolise? The idea is that it represents a possible 'birth' date for the Tarot but it also seems to be mainly speculative.

I agree that the 1420 chart is wildly speculative. In fact, I don't see it as a birth chart, per se. In this case, i worked with the "natural" chart (Aries rising) and only the outer planets from Jupiter or even Saturn outward. I was looking for a dynamic out of which the Tarot *could have* emerged - even at a later date in which this dynamic was moving into a subsequent stage of it's cycle.

Furthermore, given a relatively specific date such as December 1909, it's entirely valid to look for significant earlier astrological events of which this date is a later reverberation. This is done by checking all historical periods when the outer planets were in those same locations (and/or stages of a cycle) to see if a particular theme emerges. Of course, specific dates and times would give us a natal chart with its detailed "personality" characteristics and timing factors - that we don't have.

This is a radically different kind of astrology than natal astrology. It involves becoming aware of the cycles. The IO Sprite program allow you to see the natural chart as a clock with any number of "hands" on it. The fastest moving planets are like second hands, the mid-range planets are minute hands, and the outer planets are hour hands. After a while you begin to realize that whenever the Sun is at the top of the "clock" it's midwinter (shortest day), and when the Sun and Moon are opposite each other there's a full moon. But, what happens every time Uranus and Neptune are opposite each other?

Hope this clarifies my perspective. I haven't really tried to articulate it before.

Mary