What and Why is the Soul?

[Bernice]

There are a great many references to the Soul in this forum, but none that actually discuss what it really is, or why it is. It seems that our thoughts about it are based on ancient concepts, like Egyptian, Judaism (Tree of Life), etc. Not surprising, as that is where the word/idea (or cognate ones) came from.

I've searched this forum and the only thread I can find discussing what a Soul might be is back in 26 July 2006:-

Basic soul self?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=63645

The last post by Ravenest is a very interesting one, I'm surprised it wasn't followed up. But it's about the psychic level of being, not the actual Soul itself. Unless of course, you (generic) belive that the 'psychic senses' are included in the structure/substance of a Soul.

It's often used to mean the very essence of a person or living creature, because that's what the word Soul implies in english common expressions like, "Save our Souls", "the Soul of (whatever...)", "Soul-mate", "a New Soul", "an Old Soul" etc. With the addition that it's linked to everything else that exists.
I.E. A unique quintessential 'something'. Which may or may not be a part of, or some facet of, a Creator or Supreme Intelligence (whatever). A part of the Whole (everything throughout all levels of existence). Does the essence of a unique individual qualify as a Soul?

The last two terms (New and Old Souls) are particularly interesting as they imply that Souls are continually being newly born into manifest existence, and that all Souls recycle in & out of it. An eternal generation of fresh unique Souls which eternally cycle into and out of manifest existence. To what end one wonders?

There is also the idea that a Soul is a Spiritual 'thing', or do we mean a non-manifest 'thing'? We bandy these words about without any real specific definition for them...... aside from the aforesaid ancient conceptual Models of Man.


Thoughts welcome.


Bee.

 

[Bhavana]

I was raised on the religious definition of soul, the whole idea being one of control - there is a heaven, and there is a hell, and if you aren't good, little girl, you are going to pay for it! While I do feel that there is an essence to each of us that goes beyond the physical, and sometimes I think that must be the "soul", there is also a very unromantic part of me that has to say that there is no proof, anywhere, of the soul, and that when we die, that is it - the end. Fear of death has driven the idea that the soul moves on after dying - without that belief, dead is just dead. And that seems pretty depressing, especially for people who have had a hard life. I am not sure what I really believe - but I do think that this is the time, this life is the one we have to celebrate and live to the fullest....to heck with the afterlife.

There is a belief that we lose weight on the moment of death, and the belief is that that weight is the soul leaving the body. I don't think it's been proven.

 

[Milfoil]

What a wonderful, if impossible question.

Different religions and belief systems around the world seem to have different ideas of what the soul (anima) is. The monotheistic religions believe in a single soul - one per person. However, other animistic cultures believe in multiple parts to the soul. Most shamanic systems seem to concur with 2 or 3 souls but some Inuit (Yupik I think) believe in 5!

There are also beliefs that all things have a soul, including plants, animals, lakes, rivers, caves, stones, mountains etc.

From what I have read and studies, most, regardless of how many they believe in, consider the soul to be the breath of life, what animates the body, the essence of the consciousness which lives for ever.

Some believe that it is connected to a single God, others that God is in all things and therefore each soul is part of God and connected to all things - ie the soul is the fragment of God (consciousness) in everything.

I tend towards the latter and from certain experiences in life it fits my understanding at this point to believe in the soul as the self which is like a triskel, each leg or coil made up of an infinitely sectioned or faceted jewel. One coil is the genetic flesh body, made up of countless generations of DNA and all the strengths and problems those inherited genes give us through life. This part returns to this physical/material Earth to be reused and recycled. The second is the mind or personality which evolves over countless experiences, feelings, beliefs and memories over a lifetime. This aspect voyages to the lower world/land of the dead after at death and holds the personality and memories of that individual while they were alive. I believe it is this part which mediums are able to contact after death. The third part is the life breath, the essential self, the immortal, living aspect which returns to the upper world at death. This is the part that can be reborn into a new body with new personality and life experiences yet still have a faint connection to the previous incarnations.

Each of the 3 soul parts has infinite components, some of which can become lost, injured or fractured at times of pain, stress, fear and shock.

This view of the soul makes sense to me but may not be how others understand or believe it to be - none of us can provide any proof so it may be a difficult point to find resolution on.

 

[Bernice]

Hi Milfoil,

Had to look up "triskel" to be sure I understood exactly what you were describing.
After browsing around:a number of pagan/celtic sites which describe and use it according to their own ideas about it, I think the Wiki explanation covers the meaning best:-

"Believed by many to be an ancient symbol of pre-Celtic and Celtic beliefs, the triple spiral appears in various forms in pre-Celtic and Celtic art,.......
What the symbol meant to the pagans who built Newgrange and other monuments is unknown. In more recent history, Celtic Christians have sometimes used it to represent the Christian Trinity. Neopagan religions such as Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism and Wicca use the symbol to represent a variety of triplicities from their belief systems...."

So you are inclined towards a three-fold 'body' as being the Soul. In this three-fold scheme/map/concept, does the Soul perpetually cycle in & out of manifestation?

At one time I was told it was seven-fold (7), and that they could be 'peeled' like an onion skin, with the quintessential-soul at the centre (rather like the construction of an atom .

Bhavana:
I am not sure what I really believe - but I do think that this is the time, this life is the one we have to celebrate and live to the fullest....to heck with the afterlife.

There is a belief that we lose weight on the moment of death, and the belief is that that weight is the soul leaving the body. I don't think it's been proven.

I can see where you're coming from Bhavana. And even if it does turn out that we cycle in & out of manifest existence, I suspect that each & every life should be fully lived anyway. About the weight-loss at death, I believe there were some tests/experiments back in the 60s, but without recorded details there is no actual evidence. However it does raise questions, for instance how many test people were there, and did they die on a bed rigged up to a weighing scale?

It's amazing that if all descriptions and teachings were pooled about what a Soul is (and Why it is!), the only common denominator seems to be that it does exist. But the many different ideas about its' construction/substance make its' actual existence problematic. I'm inclined towards the possibility that the quintessence of a person is an awareness of individual identity - not Soul. Beyond that........ a 'something' that isn't any-thing at all (?).


Bee

 

[Milfoil]

Well, different cultures tend towards different numbers which fit their belief systems. 1, 3, 7 and 9 are all highly significant spiritual numbers for varying reasons. 3 x 3 = 9 being one of the most common.

In this three-fold scheme/map/concept, does the Soul perpetually cycle in & out of manifestation?

Everything seems to cycle in nature so I would guess so to some degree. Again, no proof, it's just what 'fits' where I am right now and this belief is subject to change.

If we are considering if say the material body is cycled and can come back as it was, I am not so sure. Each part of the body is made up from recycled stuff from the past few billion years that the planet Earth and solar system have been in existence (and some stuff from even before then!) so the perpetual cycle is here but the soul form of a human body may only be one tiny part of that cycle.

I just can't answer with any authority whether the soul parts cycle in and out of manifestation (and time) in a regular way or irregular way but my belief is that that essential life part does.

 

[Milfoil]

OOB (out of body) and NDE (near death experiences) recorded from different people in widely different cultures around the world over the past 500+ years all suggest that there is a part of us, a consciousness, (distinct from the personality and ego in NDEs) which can separate from the material body. It is such a common and widely experienced phenomena (bi-location, shapeshifting, astral travel etc) in it's different forms, where some non-material part of ourselves can go travelling and see/experience things which are later confirmed by others, miles way, that all cultures have taken it seriously and believe in at least one 'soul'.

 

[Bernice]

Just to see if we're on the same page about the Soul, I've looked the word up in the Oxford Dictionary.

Seems that Soul comes to us from:-
Old English = Goth. Old saxon, Old High German, Old Norse.

So the 'soul-teachings' of non-english countries may not actually be describing, or referring to, the Soul at all. It simply means that their word for the immaterial aspect(s) of living things is deemed to be cognate with the Northern Hemisphere ideas of what Soul is. Bump

Old Norse....... hmm. Didn't they have the Fetch? Although I think it might have been used in connection with their horses.


Bee

 

[Richard]

I just think of the soul as the self (in the Jungian sense), not the ego, but rather the so-called "higher" self (a term so beloved of ditzy New Agers ) or true self or inner self, the essence of the individual minus its acquired façades.

 

[Moonbow]

As Millie says, an almost impossible question, with an impossible answer.

I think of the soul as living in a body and also able to live outside of a body. An Awareness which continues after the body dies. And as you say Bee the one thing that everyone seems to agree on is that there IS such a thing. If not then why do we all seek spiritual paths? Without belief in a soul the body lives and then the body dies. So are souls the imprint we leave behind? That doesn't really answer the WHY of your question though. And are we meant to know? If we know then there is no soul because knowing is part of our contiousness.

 

[Bernice]

As Millie says, an almost impossible question, with an impossible answer.

Exactly . All Religions (except Buddhism) and nearly all belief sytems, Pagan included, have Soul as an integral part of their creed/teachings. Yet none agree about what it is, or why it is. I'm having to assume that the word is used as an 'umberella' to mean the immaterial part(s) of beings. And this immaterial part is considered to be Spiritual. Note to self, must look up the origins of that word as well

......the one thing that everyone seems to agree on is that there IS such a thing. If not then why do we all seek spiritual paths? Without belief in a soul the body lives and then the body dies. So are souls the imprint we leave behind? That doesn't really answer the WHY of your question though. And are we meant to know? If we know then there is no soul because knowing is part of our contiousness.

Thinking..... IF it is possible to comprehend immaterial aspects of existence, then why shouldn't we be able to gain some understanding about the Soul, IF the the Soul does in fact exist.

The word 'Soul' is rather like giving a name to a mythical continent (for instance, Bodmere/whatever) where a few travellers have ventured, and they return with tales of the area they visited, along with their opinions and ideas about - not a clear/true map of the complete land mass.

Will attempt to discover what the Old Norse had in mind for this word.


Bee