Who or what are we asking?

[FinoAllaFine]

Hi everybody, if this thread already exists or its in the wrong place let me know, I couldn't see it in the indexes.

When we read tarot where is the information coming from? Do the cards hold some kind of tangible power themselves? Are we asking our higher selves? A higher, unified consciousness? A god? Is it the universe aligning you up to see the cards you need to see on that day in order to further you on your path to wherever youre going? Is it 'empty' art that we give meaning by reading into?

For me its a bit of a mixture. I believe that Im being shown what I need to be shown so I can see what I need to see. For that reason I try and trust my intuitive reading over the lwb. I do believe a higher intelligence is guiding that, though. A higher self or a unified counscious field but Im still working that out.

What do you think?

Enviado desde mi LT30p mediante Tapatalk

 

[nisaba]

When we read tarot where is the information coming from?

In my practice, this question isn't even relevant. What I would ask if I were to question it, would be: "Is this reading (or all readings) beneficial to my client or not?" If readings are beneficial, then it doesn't matter if they come from God or yourself or Quantum Mechanics or Satan, they are beneficial. If they are not beneficial, then all the gods and angels dancing around your reading-table won't make it any better.

Do the cards hold some kind of tangible power themselves?

Power comes from the human mind. Tarot cards are cardboard and printer's ink. A deck feels "warm" or "heavy" or "positive" or "negative" based on the mood of the person who handles it most often - the reader who owns it. Decks can store energy, but they cannot make it.

(A friend of mine and I once had lunch and by coincidence had both brought the same deck along. At the end of the lunch we boxed up the decks, then later, he didn't know which one to pick up and take away. I picked up both: kept the one that felt like me, and gave him the one that felt like him.)

 

[FinoAllaFine]

If readings are beneficial, then it doesn't matter if they come from God or yourself or Quantum Mechanics or Satan, they are beneficial.



Power comes from the human mind. Tarot cards are cardboard and printer's ink.

Thanks for your reply, very interesting points!

As to the first of your points - I totally get that it doesn't really matter what the source of the 'information' is, as long as it serves the client well. It's akin to the 'God works in mysterious ways' adage. However my question is asking about that source, regardless of the effectiveness of the reading for the client. If you saw something in readings you were doing for yourself would you trust the advice enough to act upon it? If so why? What is this source you are trusting?

What I've just typed here ^^ might be answered by the second half of your post. Does 'The human mind' by your definition stop with neurological activity, or is the mind a link to something else which is the energy communicating with us through the tarot?

Enviado desde mi LT30p mediante Tapatalk

- also I'm sorry I initially just quoted you without adding anything, I'm still getting used to using tapatalk!

 

[Barleywine]

Power comes from the human mind. Tarot cards are cardboard and printer's ink. A deck feels "warm" or "heavy" or "positive" or "negative" based on the mood of the person who handles it most often - the reader who owns it. Decks can store energy, but they cannot make it.

Yes, "power comes from the human mind" has always been my take on it. I see the cards as a kind of "can opener" that gets at that power in useful ways. A recent thread on the Lovers refreshed my memory on the very first impression I had back in the early '70s about how tarot "works." In his book The Tarot, Paul Foster Case observed that the Woman in the RWS version - representing the subconscious mind - is the conscious mind's (Man's) link to the Angel (superconscious mind or "higher consciousness") because the conscious mind is too intellectualized and wrapped up in material existence to get the message directly. Ever since that time, I've felt that the message is imbued in the cards of a specific reading by a form of "subconscious induction." It all comes from and through the mind, by whatever mechanism makes the "delivery." This obviously works best in face-to-face reading; remote reading with no engagement of the querent runs the risk of "short-circuiting" or "hijacking" of that channel of communication by the reader's own subjective impressions. Many here disagree, of course, because e-mail reading is such a lucrative business (compared to the alternative of waiting for sitters to walk through the door, not to mention pressure from the "instant gratification" culture) that they've convinced themselves otherwise. In the end, though, it's pretty much all anecdotal evidence.

 

[Grizabella]

I believe the information comes from a conscious Universe. Amit Goswami Ph.D. and Dean Radin, PhD have written some books about just this. It's been scientifically proven now that psychic ability actually does exist and that the Universe is actually "conscious".

 

[Barleywine]

I believe the information comes from a conscious Universe. Amit Goswami Ph.D. and Dean Radin, PhD have written some books about just this. It's been scientifically proven now that psychic ability actually does exist and that the Universe is actually "conscious".

I agree. I finally settled on pantheism as the closest approximation to a religion I'm ever likely to get. Richard Dawkins demolished pretty much everything else, although he didn't let Spinoza off the hook either. My only problem with Spinoza was that he still retained the idea of a god-like "entity," just a diffused one, and I don't see why the Universe needs a "face." The "classical" Deists of Thomas Jefferson's time apparently thought that god created the universe and then just walked away from it, never looking back (although there is now some contention about that viewpoint). I still think, though, that the subconscious mind is the medium for the message.

 

[DesertDream]

In a big way we are the power behind them. We are the ones pulling the cards after all.
I do though, trust God will guide my reading and lead my hand and heart. I ask for Divine guidance. So I trust that is were it is coming from. For others it may be the same or different.

 

[uraszz]

Well this is an interesting question, one I hope will be at least considered by every person through their journey of divination

Alan Watts says that the Universe "Humaned". He says this in explanation of the connectedness that we all share with everything. You could not have been manifested in any shape or form and not be an expression of something bigger and larger than yourself

Now considering that all of existence is actually set upon duality and that one could not exist without the other then saying that the physical existence that we inhabit also has a spiritual counterpart is only a logical and valid assumption

If we are some expression of the macrocosm in microcosmic form ("every Man and Woman is a Star") physically, then I think it's safe to say that the same thing is applicable on a spiritual level. Our minds are our bridge to first the Conscious then the Sub-conscious then the Unconscious then the Collective Unconscious and lastly the Universal Consciousness which manifests physically as Art and Science

I think that when we use any divinatory method we are willingly putting ourselves into the headspace to allow a small gap to open between all of the other forms of consciousness creating a tunnel like reception, hence the term receiving guidance

Now you may ask "but how can Consciousness know the answers to the stuff we're asking about?" and it is a very valid question. For this you must keep in mind that as far as Humans have researched and thoroughly plowed the nearly endless field of mysticism and esotericism they have come to one very basic truth; Consciousness is infinite, cyclical and all encompassing. I see it as a web of transmitted stray information that the brain can pick-up on but it is so miniscule that the Conscious counterpart discards the information directly into the subconscious and we never gain awareness of it. As I said before using any divining method puts you into the state of mind that actually allows you to retain the information you pick up on due to the sensory anchor that you use

In old times it was said that the Diviner was actually acting as a vessel for God to speak through them, giving wisdom and insight. Now I don't believe in an anthropomorphic God but I do believe in a Universal Consciousness and the tunnel like opening I mentioned is that Consciousness flowing through you so I believe in the validity of what the ancients said even if the way they phrased it is not the same as I have

I hope I put my jumbled thoughts into words coherently

Sincerely

-uraszz

 

[nisaba]

If you saw something in readings you were doing for yourself would you trust the advice enough to act upon it? If so why?

Absolutely! Because every single time I've ignored it, I've lived to pay for it and regret it bitterly.

What is this source you are trusting?

The personal experience that Tarot *works* is what I'm trusting.

 

[Ace]

I believe the information comes from a conscious Universe. Amit Goswami Ph.D. and Dean Radin, PhD have written some books about just this. It's been scientifically proven now that psychic ability actually does exist and that the Universe is actually "conscious".

I believe in the Askashic record--the soul record or the record of EVERYTHING that has ever happened up to this moment. I say that when I read it is like this:

Imagine you and the sitter going up on a mental helicopter (having an out of body experience.) You (the sitter) look down and see yourself and you see a trail leading backward behind you. You see yourself earlier in the day, meeting a friend by chance. Then you follow the FRIEND'S trail back and see where she had a fight with her husband or son earlier in the day. And you think, "so THAT is why she was so crabby!"

That is what happens when we read cards: we look down the Record of the person we are reading for and get information for them that they may find useful. I do believe the future, therefore is completely changeable, because it isn't created yet. And I am an atheist. I think the Universe is ultimately neutral. Like a computer. It doesn't think, it merely holds data.

Barb