Natal Chart with Traditional Astrology

[Flaxen]

I'll deal with that first. Retrograde is not the same thing as Detriment. The former is an accidental debility, the latter is an essential debility. An accidental dignity has nothing to do with sign placement but is related either to the position of the planet in a chart (house placement) or to it's position relative to the sun (and planets are seen to be retrograde at certain points in their solar cycle). Detriment is related to a planet's sign placement - when it is in the sign opposite it's rulership. Modern Astrologers tend to treat 'retrograde' as acting oddly compared to the planet's natural disposition. Traditional Astrologers, will treat 'retrograde' according to the chart reading - in a horary chart it might indicate a lost possession becoming found.

In a natal chart it's effect depends on the overall balance of strengths and weaknesses (bot accidental and essential dignities), in some circumstances, where the overall balance is towards the weak end then it can inhibit that planet's expression significantly, at other times it may not have an obvious effect at all, I tend not to put anything of significance on it at all but accept that it might show some minor oddities in behaviour.

Ah! Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

If I were you, I'd drop Placidus for your traditional work - despite the fact it was developed in the seventeenth century, it was never used widely till after the end of the 'tradition' I would suggest either Regiomontanus, Alcabitius or Porphry. Porphry is easy to calculate on your own, if you don't have any software - simply divide the arc between Ascendant and MC into three equal parts and extend those parts across the chart to determine the 12th and 11th cusps and 5th and 6th cusps. Then do the same for the arc between Ascendant and IC to get the 2nd and 3rd and 8th and 9th cusps.

Just tested those out using Morinus software and they all give pretty much the same result. It shifts three planets into my 6th house rather than 2 of them being in the 7th. That seems to have quite an implication for my interpretations.

 

[Minderwiz]

Just tested those out using Morinus software and they all give pretty much the same result. It shifts three planets into my 6th house rather than 2 of them being in the 7th. That seems to have quite an implication for my interpretations.

Not quite sure I follow which house systems you're comparing but if I'm right and you're comparing the Whole Sign system, which would put Moon and Venus in your seventh house (which would be the whole of Capricorn) against Alacabitius, Porphry, Regiomontanus (and indeed all quadrant systems based on the Ascendant and MC) then yes, the Moon and Venus are below the Descendant, putting them in the sixth. BUT both of those two planets are within 5 degrees of the Descendant and most traditional Astrologers would apply the 5 degree rule and treat them as Seventh - they conjunct the Descendant and opposed the Ascendant.
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If they had been say 10 degrees away, then they would have been definite sixth House, using a quadrant system. You will only find occasional differences between, say Regiomontanus and Placidus in terms of House placement but you will find many differences between Whole Sign and any quadrant system. BOTH are correct in terms of reading the chart - though they will clearly be some differences in the interpretation. I would probably only use Whole Sign with Hellenistic or Medieval methods - again there are some differences in House meanings over time (certainly in emphasis) and Medieval and Hellenistic interpretations would make a large use of the Parts/Lots (and associated charts). So you're not comparing like with like in terms of methods, though all approaches will probably bring you to a very similar set of conclusions.

There's a world of difference between Lilly and the modern psychologists, but I'm frequently surprised and pleased that my interpretations often reach similar conclusions to Dave's even though we use very diffrent methods. The problems come more when you start mixing systems and grafting in to an approach, something that would never be used - in such cases you have to be very careful and fully aware of the risks - but it can be done - with care!!

 

[Flaxen]

Minderwiz, thank you so much for your patience with my rather plodding attempts to make sense of it all.

My current chart info (using Regiomontanus) is as follows:

Mars in Leo 04 degrees - 1st house
Saturn in Leo 29 degrees - 2nd house
Mercury in Sagittarius 29 degrees - 6th house
Venus in Capricorn 21 degrees - shows as 6th house but should be 7th according to 5 degree rule?
Sun in Capricorn 28 degrees - 7th house (within 5 degrees of descendent)
Moon in Pisces 24 degrees - 9th house
Jupiter in Gemini 28 degrees - 12th house
Lot of Fortune in Virgo 26 degrees - 3rd house
North node in Libra 9 degrees - 4th house
South node in Aries 9 degrees - 10th house

Planet with most essential and accidental dignity is Mars.

I like Ben Dykes' explanation of planets and how they will try to express themselves in a particular house as well as trying to manage the house it rules.

Looking at my chart, if the Moon is in the 9th house, it indicates religion/travel with moon qualities. The Moon rules Cancer which is in my 1st house so this could mean that my spirituality and travel experiences are an expression of myself and an important part of my personality. This is obviously an extremely simple assessment and I look forward to reading through Lilly to find out more.

 

[Minderwiz]

I like Ben Dykes' explanation of planets and how they will try to express themselves in a particular house as well as trying to manage the house it rules.

Looking at my chart, if the Moon is in the 9th house, it indicates religion/travel with moon qualities. The Moon rules Cancer which is in my 1st house so this could mean that my spirituality and travel experiences are an expression of myself and an important part of my personality. This is obviously an extremely simple assessment and I look forward to reading through Lilly to find out more.

That's a good start!!

Things that you might consider about the Moon,

It's very near your MC, so how far does it influence, or even become part of your tenth?
It's squared by Retrograde Jupiter - so it's a mutual application. Jupiter rules Pisces, and hence the Moon, It also rules the tenth as well as the ninth, so it plays a key role in your chart.

Back to your Moon - it also aspects all the other planets, except the two malefics,
It trines your Ascendant (which it rules) and that is very signficant
The Moon is also in Hayz - a nocturnal planet nocturnally placed in a nocturnal chart (the Sun has set) - The Moon dominates your chart

So you are a heavily lunar person, it helps to define who you are (through it's rulership of your Ascendant) and how you function in society (through its conjunction with the MC)

 

[Flaxen]

That's a good start!!

Things that you might consider about the Moon,

It's very near your MC, so how far does it influence, or even become part of your tenth?
It's squared by Retrograde Jupiter - so it's a mutual application. Jupiter rules Pisces, and hence the Moon, It also rules the tenth as well as the ninth, so it plays a key role in your chart.

I wouldn't have thought about it's relationship to the 10th which at the moment is not looking hugely positive with the south node sitting there.
Work/Fame does not look too rosy. The south node is seen as a malefic and it's sitting in my house of fame/work so could this be interpreted as not necessarily receiving recognition for work done? Will Jupiter, being a benefic, help to mitigate this? Ben Dykes makes a point about retrograde planets indicating repetition sometimes which I find quite interesting in the light of career/public recognition.

 

[Minderwiz]

I wouldn't have thought about it's relationship to the 10th which at the moment is not looking hugely positive with the south node sitting there.
Work/Fame does not look too rosy. The south node is seen as a malefic and it's sitting in my house of fame/work so could this be interpreted as not necessarily receiving recognition for work done? Will Jupiter, being a benefic, help to mitigate this? Ben Dykes makes a point about retrograde planets indicating repetition sometimes which I find quite interesting in the light of career/public recognition.

Well the South Node is only significant if it's in close aspect to something and it's only aspect is a loose trine from Mars in the first. It's also in a different sign (Aries) than the MC (Pisces), so I don't think you have much to worry about from the South Node.

Jupiter is something of a problem though - as you note, it's retrograde, it's also sitting on the twelfth cusp and is accidentally, Lord 6. It has a mutual reception by sign and by triplicity with Mercury (Lord 12) and the two are in opposition. However that might well be a good thing - the aspect brings a full mutual reception (both by house and linked by aspect) and I think Lilly somewhere says that such a mutual reception, even by opposition brings no harm - they might not like each other but the rules of hospitality say they have to help each other.

But as Jupiter also rules the ninth, the Moon cannot escape him.

Incidentally, in terms of career (honours, preferments, dignities) Lilly lists the following to examine in order:

The lights (Sun and Moon)
The ruler of the tenth (Jupiter in your case)
Planet(s) in the tenth (none in your case)
Fixed regal stars near (within a degree) of the Ascendant or MC )Procyon and Scheat respectively in your case.

It's too early to start looking at fixed stars, but Sun and Moon give some idea of our general fortune or misery (LOL) and the tenth can be read in the light of that general impression.

 

[Flaxen]

Thank you again!

At the moment, I feel like I'm look at small sections of the chart but I'm not at a stage to weave the whole thing together. There are so many possible interactions that sometimes I find myself a little lost in detail.

 

[Minderwiz]

Thank you again!

At the moment, I feel like I'm look at small sections of the chart but I'm not at a stage to weave the whole thing together. There are so many possible interactions that sometimes I find myself a little lost in detail.

And that's the way we all begin! As you get better you'll make more connections between houses - for example, your tenth is also connected to your first - are you suitable for the job? - to your second (your income and moveable wealth), possibly your fourth (Your home and any real estate) and you'll begin to look at these as a group. But don't run before you can walk.

 

[Flaxen]

Still continuing with my rather plodding attempts.

My latest thoughts are as follows:

Following Lilly's ideas my chart doesn't seem to indicate great wealth or extreme poverty which sounds about right.

Looking at my 7th house, I find that Venus and the Sun are both there. Venus in this position would indicate a partnership with Venusian qualities. So in my marriage, I could expect a shared enjoyment of the good things in life and enjoyment of each other's company. Saturn is the lord of this house which might impose some limits on our enjoyment. Also, Capricorn is not a double sign (although it is many-shaped) so I can expect just one marriage (which will be a relief to my husband).

Venus rules both Taurus and Libra which relate to the 11th house and 4th house respectively. Friends and parents seem to be important factors in the relationship and could be pivotal. I wonder if this could indicate a marriage based on friendship or one which begins through the agency of mutual friends.

The Sun is also in the 7th house which indicates a relationship with sun-like qualities too.

Lilly suggests taking the sign of the 7th to signify the shape of his body and the Lord thereof his Conditions. In this case it would be Capricorn to signify the shape of his body and Saturn his Conditions. This makes my husband of a certain Melancholy disposition - cautious, prudent, patient. Lilly does give Mars as a cosignificator which is in Leo. This would give him a certain Choleric element too.

 

[Kibeth]

Is William Lilly the best route to go down?

I'd say following Baraqijal, Shamsiel and Sariel's teachings is the best route. If we're going to go traditional why not go the whole nine yards like back to the biblical times?

Pardon my devilish transits for the shortness.