Tarot and Numerology

[ravenest]

... but the argument that tropical astrologers were simply ignorant of the facts of precession is a false one.

Partially true ... my point is some (and increasingly more nowadays) tropical astrologers ARE simply ignorant of the facts of precession ... I know, I've talked to them .... they charge $60 for a chart and print it off a programme and the rave that goes with it.

I am not saying all astrologers that have used this system throughout history were ignorant of the facts.

 

[ravenest]

In the books I've read, I never came onto idea I should correct with 28 degree a birth chart. Maybe it is basic astrology, but it is not so often displayed and explained.

Interesting! My friends old ephemeris had a note towards the front in small print at the bottom of the page explaining what to add to the tables to get a sidereal position ... she got a new Ephemeris and that passage was omitted.

Its not that you SHOULD correct ... but I believe you should be aware of what exactly the chart you got IS calculating. ... BY the way... some tropical astrologers virtually ignore the outer ring on a chart and give astrological 'sign' little influence ... its come a long way away from what it used to be , the science of the stars movements and relationship and their effects on individuals and society.

 

[ravenest]

In the books I read, there is no discussion about this difference (tropical / sidereal), and very little about how to make a chart (because a computer program will do it, in the end). The attention was given not very much on technical background, more on the signification part, like the characteristics and meaning of signs, planets, houses, aspects. Probably I am really at the beginner end of the astrological knowledge. Thank you for your answers.

Not surprised ... some astrologers get angry with me for ever bringing it up. It is rapidly changing though.

It all has to do with the ease of calculation; making an equal 30 degree 12 division circle starting from the equinoctal point (which is in itself arbitrary, the G,D. astrology is set at Regulus ... a star in Leo ... some use Spica in Virgo ) ... they base things on this grid regardless of what stars are in the grid.

It gets obviously silly when. eg. one looks up the astrological actual (sidereal) position of ... say Spica (the bright star in the sprig of grain Virgo is holding in her left hand) .... give me a sec ....

Longitude (1900) 22LIB27 ( 22 degrees Libra 27 minutes) ; (2000) 23LIB50.

You can see the movement and also the designation in Libra ... because tropical astrologers call that part of the sky - within the actual asterism of Virgo - Libra.

and just to stimulate your thought more ... they changed it all around anyway to make the constellations fit a nice even 12 x 30 degree segments ... they chopped off Scorpio's claws and gave them to Libra's scales ... and other 'modern atrocities ' .

It goes on and on .... I have been studying it for some years, including ancient astrology (pre Ptolemaic astrology as well and also native and indigenous astrologies ... including the local ones , some which still survive in living traditions 10s of 1000s of years old (here).

People may say a constellation is an 'artificial' construct (on that level so is much of everything we study ... including astrology (the earth is NOT the centre like it shows on your natal astrology chart - tropical or sidereal - ) BUT the comparisons I have made with cultures that have had no contact with each other (eg. Australian Aboriginal and Greek) may lead one to suppose otherwise ... at least they seem 'natural' as an image in the 'collective imagination' of cultures with no contact and very different environments and lifestyles .

As I said above, a good astro site should give you an option within the calculator to select sidereal.

I can answer more queries about this, but if not relating to tarot and numerology, best to PM me.

 

[ravenest]

One more little snippet

When the sky emu lays her eggs on this part of the horizon ... you know its time to go and collect them for food ... the rock art tells you how and calculates the times of year as well.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g4JKpl779b4/TaLBJ4isldI/AAAAAAAAADY/YLRNhwbWNx4/s1600/emu.png

This is an example of tropical astrology ... in that it is based on a seasonal cycle, hunting and gathering. The cycles of 'mythology' of the dog in the Milky Way (who cried out and changed creation when the boy bit his ear) is more 'sidereal' in that it relates to totemic rights and individual's and clan's life purposes and functions.

 

[daphne]

It goes on and on .... I have been studying it for some years, including ancient astrology (pre Ptolemaic astrology as well and also native and indigenous astrologies ... including the local ones , some which still survive in living traditions 10s of 1000s of years old (here).

The post you wrote (although still complex for me) is something I would love to read in an astrology book.

I like the way you explain. Have you ever thought to teach it? Or to write a book about the different sorts of astrology, like an explained history of astrology. As long as you are so good informed after some years of study, why not put it together in a cohesive story? Be sure I would be the first to buy it.

For instance I would like first to be informed about various traditions, and especially to learn about the 'modern atrocities', so I can make an informed decision what I learn further. A beginner is lost in oversimplification and will end up an ignorant, as you described.

 

[ravenest]

It has been taught and applied various ways and appeared in limited semi-private publication. As far as general publications go (on the history and development of astrology) I am not qualified to write that.

try googling 'the history of astrology' (including the wiki article of that name.)

Some handy tools;

https://www.astro.com/

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/

Regarding the rest - too off topic, I think - as I said, I can explain specifics via PM.

 

[Richard]

I believe!

It is a sign of things to come. Eons from now, we entities will believe like never before as we are reborn by the galaxy. The future will be a powerful deepening of faith.

Our conversations with other lifeforms have led to a condensing of supra-divine consciousness. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the dreamscape via sub-atomic particles. We are at a crossroads of potential and turbulence.

 

[firecatpickles]

I prefer the Hindi/sidereal chart because it's a better fit for me. In the tropical system, it describes me as a total Cancerian personality, which I am not. In the sidereal, I am Gemini-Cancer cusp describing me to a tee. My mother's sidereal sign, though her birthday is the day before mine, would be the non-cusp Gemini, Gemini's sign describing her completely accurately. My Vedic chart overall is more accurate than the western tropical

Have you tried determining time of day of birth by comparing charts with another person, such as parent, sibling or life-partner?

 

[ravenest]

Yep, thats why I first got into it. If one looks at an astronomical map, that area of the sky is very interesting around the Gemini Cancer cusp. Some areas of the ecliptic seem a vast desert (asterism wise) ... there are a few other constellations close by ; Auriga, Orion, etc.

A common misperceptions is that planets follow the line of the ecliptic - they dont. That line is a mean path plotted from the position of eclipses - the planets move in a wave form (as plotted on a star map) defined by the band of the ecliptic and in some cases can cross into constellations not on the ecliptic. In some cases an influence from a significant star may be considered as it is on the same latitude (edit ... longitude I mean ... well ,,, Right Ascension then) as a planet or the Sun.

Modern astrologers have called me nuts and say that's crazy but ....

eg. " The last star in the Great Bear. Benetnash (Alkaid) means 'hired mourners'. If the influence of this star is exercised, an influence of a Mars-Uranus-Saturn nature is present. Experience has shown that many human lives are to be mourned. Reinhold Ebertin made a survey of this fixed star covering centuries when associated with transits of the major planets over this degree. The results have been recorded in the 40th yearbook for Cosmobiological Research 1969. In accordance with adopted belief of ancient times, this fixed star is supposed to be bound up with the realm of the dead and is therefore associated with death and mourning. In an important position in a mundane map, Benetnash will claim human lives in calamities such as mine accidents, collapse of houses and bridges, mountain slides, earth tremors and catastrophes caused by weather. Uranus was in exact conjunction with Benetnash at the end of July 1969. This time was marked with extreme tension between Prague and Moscow, followed later in August by the Russian takeover of the USSR. The Czech reformers in Schwarzau on the Theiss fought for the freedom of their nation on the 30th July with the Russian political bigwigs. The Soviets widened their 'maneuvers' in Poland. [Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, no.46, p.57, under the name Benetnash]

~ One of the interesting points (aside from me being a sidereal Cancer / Gemini myself) is that some insist I am Cancerian, as they know me ... yet at the same time my Gemini side can drive them nuts ( look at the effect it had on LRichard above ). Under closer analysis my Sun nature is Gemini but my tropical Leo Moon moved as well so sidereally my Moon is now in Cancer, and that is the Cancerian energy people pick up on - under examination it is apparent that my Cancerian energy IS being expressed in the mode of the Moon and not the Sun ... and the Sun Gemini shift explains a lot about me that would be confusing to see me 'as a Cancer'

But its all a lot more complex than this, and observations need to be made in context with interplanetary relationships , ruling planets and 'chart themes'.

 

[Richard]

...... ~ One of the interesting points (aside from me being a sidereal Cancer / Gemini myself) is that some insist I am Cancerian, as they know me ... yet at the same time my Gemini side can drive them nuts ( look at the effect it had on LRichard above ). ........

Someone sent me some mental health affirmations, and I'm getting better.