Wands- Air --- Swords - Fire ... what do you think?

Jewel

At one time I was a wands/fire swords/air only person. As my knowledge of tarot has expanded and I now understand the reason for certain associations (as posted by Thirteen, Kiama and JMD), I am now very comfortable with both. I think I still prefer the wands/fire swords/air association but I have no issues with the swords/fire wands/air and can comfortably use a deck that goes either way.

I believe one of the reasons for my continued preference of wands as fire is that it helps remind me that too much passion CAN and WILL consume you (as fire will the wand or stave). Wands is my favorite suit and I trully identify with them on a personal level. It is this personal connection that drives my preference.

As for cups as air ~shakes head~ I do not think I will understand that one.
 

starfish66

Jewel said:
I believe one of the reasons for my continued preference of wands as fire is that it helps remind me that too much passion CAN and WILL consume you (as fire will the wand or stave). Wands is my favorite suit and I trully identify with them on a personal level. It is this personal connection that drives my preference.

What a great analogy! I'm writing this in my journal...

Blessings -

:THERM Starfish
 

lupo138

as far as I can say to swords/wands I relate swords to air. on the other hand I ahve a problem with relating wands to fire as well, because the wands would be consumed by it. The explanation Thirteen gave here, was really enlighting for me - as always, I have to say :)
 

DarkElectric

I relate Swords to air, Wands to fire as well. In my Celtic Dragon deck, however, it's Swords=Fire, Wands=Air. Which to say the least confuses me a bit, but I can read with the deck anyway.

Someone once told me that the Swords-Air, Wands-Fire was a deliberate obfuscation on the part of the Golden Dawn to prevent non initiates from reading Tarot correctly. Has anyone else ever heard this?
 

marmalade

well, i'm of the wands=air, swords=fire camp. my first deck was the art nouveau/myers which has the suits arranged this way. it confused me to no end at the beginning though, as all the books i had on the subject were written about decks arranged the other way around. i just substituted the swapped the suit names around and learned them that way. now, i've got ahold of the tarot of oz, which is swords=air arranged, and i'm having trouble getting my head around that now. i've also got the rock n' roll tarot, which i think i prefer as it doesn't use the traditional suits, so i don't get stuck in this problem!!
 

retrokat

When deciding which way to go with my own deck, I tried to consider it both logically & historically. There were so many convincing arguments for both air=swords, fire=wands and vice versa, it was really difficult. You've raised other points here that I didn't even think about - for both sides of the debate, so that doesn't make it any easier! The more I tried to rationalise about it, the harder the decision got.

In the end, I went with my gut feeling based on two cards, the Queens:

http://www.goldentarot.com/miswqu.htm
http://www.goldentarot.com/miwaqu.htm

I figured I was going to make *some* people unhappy either way, so I may as well just go what felt right to me. Swords have always left me cold so I just couldn't make them fire, despite all the very good reasons to do so.

I loved Jewel's comment above about wands/too much passion will consume us. As Earth Kitt sang, "I'd rather be burned as a witch than never be burned at all". :)
 

WillieHewes

Wow, I'm... thoroughly confused now.

I never understood why swords would be fire, but I guess it now makes sense. The only thing I don't understand is, if you 'swap' the alignments, I mean, if a deck uses the reverse correlation to the one you use, doesn't that also reverse the meaning of the cards, or not?

Surely it must! *shakes head in confusion*

And what about the court cards, if swords are mental (which they've always been in my perception) surely they *must* be air, or can fire be intellectual?

This whole controversy is new to me, by the way, I didn't know of any option besides swords-air, wands-fire until recently. I do have a friend who swaps all the elemental alignments around except those of cups, but I always thought he was just a little weird.

Confused Willie
 

marmalade

WillieHewes said:

I never understood why swords would be fire, but I guess it now makes sense. The only thing I don't understand is, if you 'swap' the alignments, I mean, if a deck uses the reverse correlation to the one you use, doesn't that also reverse the meaning of the cards, or not?

Surely it must! *shakes head in confusion*

And what about the court cards, if swords are mental (which they've always been in my perception) surely they *must* be air, or can fire be intellectual?

Well, at least when i swap books etc around so that swords=fire, i swap everything with it... having swords mean passion and wands mean intellectual. at least with the imagry of my first deck, there was no way i could read them the other way around, as the court cards were all done up so that the wand courts looked 'airy' and the swords to look 'firey'. and now, i just try to go by whatever feelings i get from looking at the cards anyways, trying to keep away from the books as much as possible.
 

David River

Re: Re: Wands-Air---Swords-Fire..what do you think?

Thirteen said:


The argument for wands "air" is that the element should not "consume" them--so as "fire" won't consume swords, they're fire, as air won't harm wands, its air.

Interesting thought. However Fire is a consuming element. And after a while and it gets hot enough of course Fire will consume a sword. Thats how they are shaped. More or less I think that may be the link to why swords are associated with fire. Fire shapes them. In any event, Passion and Creativity definately consume. They consume time and sometimes effort. I have no problem identifying Wands to Fire and I feel it is the natural way. To say Fire dosent consume is denying the truth as everything has a dual nature. Although I am not passing judgement on anyones beliefs I think wood (i do realize not all wands are wood) and fire go together naturally and it is just right. Why then do most versions of Justice in the tarot carry a sword and scales?? The sword represents balance and cuts both ways, very much like justice, but further... it shows rationality and intellect. Fairness. Ya know....Swords....Air.

Maybe we should ask all the "Fire" and "Air" signs opinions...

Oh by the way, I am a Fire sign.

Just throwing my swords around...

David River
 

Thirteen

Re: Re: Re: Wands-Air---Swords-Fire..what do you think?

David River said:


Interesting thought. However Fire is a consuming element. And after a while and it gets hot enough of course Fire will consume a sword. Thats how they are shaped. More or less I think that may be the link to why swords are associated with fire.

You're right! It's not just that they can't be "bured up" like wood, but also that fire is a part of them, their shaping. But, of course, I'm in agreement with you--especially in regards to the symbols held by justice and such. Swords (as instruments of war or execution) are the final arbiters. And in connection with law and justice, are, IMHO, more mental.

But one could see the argument that warriors rushing screaming into battle, all passionate, are waving swords as well ;)