Queen of Swords and Magician in common?

Smiling

Thirteen said:
Because we are, after all, discussing an archetype, ideal, and avatar with the Queen/Swords. She is a card with a decided meaning, not a human being. Thus, the card is about what personality trait is foremost when they get together and try to have a relationship. It's about what part of them comes out and is "them" when they are together.

Good thread, and I'm learning a lot here, as always!

As an archetype, does the Magician have the edge over the Queen of Swords, being Major Arcana and having multiple tools at his disposal? Or is the Queen his match?

I also see that the relationship would be affected by their level of awareness. This would determine whether the Queen is threatened by (lower manifestation) the Magician, or welcoming (higher manifestation) his gifts instead.

Thirteen

Smiling said:
As an archetype, does the Magician have the edge over the Queen of Swords, being Major Arcana and having multiple tools at his disposal? Or is the Queen his match?

Tarot tradition says that the Majors always have an edge over the minors. This, rather than the Magician's range of tools, is what gives him the edge. He is, if you like, in closer communication with the platonic ideal or spiritual than the Queen. That's why, in the Rider-Waite deck, he's pointing up to heaven and down to Earth. He can bring down an idea from above and manifest it here on Earth.

The Queen can't do that, so she's not, technically, his match. Technically, the Magician's match is the High Priestess. But, as I mentioned, his tools can undermine him as much as give him an advantage. As he can switch, he will switch whenever he is bored. The queen, having only the sword (and being a court card) won't be budged from whatever she is trying to accomplish.

So while the Magician has far more tricks up his sleeve than the Queen/Swords and is technically greater being a major, that doesn't mean they can't strike a balance. He isn't as good as she is at finishing up what he starts, so she'd be very useful to him and vice versa. It's more a matter of strengths and weaknesses than finding equality. They are,, in their way, compliments.

Smiling

Thirteen said:
Tarot tradition says that the Majors always have an edge over the minors. This, rather than the Magician's range of tools, is what gives him the edge. He is, if you like, in closer communication with the platonic ideal or spiritual than the Queen. That's why, in the Rider-Waite deck, he's pointing up to heaven and down to Earth. He can bring down an idea from above and manifest it here on Earth.

The Queen can't do that, so she's not, technically, his match. Technically, the Magician's match is the High Priestess. But, as I mentioned, his tools can undermine him as much as give him an advantage. As he can switch, he will switch whenever he is bored. The queen, having only the sword (and being a court card) won't be budged from whatever she is trying to accomplish.

So while the Magician has far more tricks up his sleeve than the Queen/Swords and is technically greater being a major, that doesn't mean they can't strike a balance. He isn't as good as she is at finishing up what he starts, so she'd be very useful to him and vice versa. It's more a matter of strengths and weaknesses than finding equality. They are,, in their way, compliments.

Yes, this makes sense. Thank you for adding another layer of understanding to the dynamic between these two archetypes.

QueenPen

Thirteen said:
I agree that the Queen/Swords can love, BUT, we have to be careful regarding cards that we identify with. Because no human being is the Queen/Swords. You or I can be mostly the Queen/Swords, but in certain situations we're also the Queen/Cups, Queen/Pents, or Queen/Wands—likely even some kings, knights and pages So even if we're 98% Queen/Swords, even if we strongly identify with that card and always put it down as our signifier, to look at it and say, "I love and therefore so does the Queen/Swords"...isn't exactly accurate.

Because we are, after all, discussing an archetype, ideal, and avatar with the Queen/Swords. She is a card with a decided meaning, not a human being. Thus, the card is about what personality trait is foremost when they get together and try to have a relationship. It's about what part of them comes out and is "them" when they are together. I mean, we all see that in our lives. We say, "This guy is such a jerk to me." And others say, "Oh, my gosh, he's always a sweetheart to me. Best friend I ever had..." We're never just one person or the same person with everyone.

You argue that you' have a wonderful love relationship with your Magician. But maybe if you laid down the cards you'd find that in that RELATIONSHIP you are the Queen/Cups and he the King/Cups. Maybe in every other aspect of your life you are the Queen/Swords and he the Magician...except when you're together (or not). Because you're not the Queen/Swords 24/7 or in all situations. Nor is he the Magician 24/7 and in all situations.

So the question of whether there can be love in this relationship is very pertinent. A Magician/Queen-Swords relationship is NOT going to include include romantic, hearts-and-valentines love. It's going to be the sort of connection that revolves around admiration for each other's clever words and minds. And that's fine. It could even be called "Love"—but we must not assume that just because we identify with a card, that the card is us through and through including aspects that are decidedly not part of what the card is all about. I identify with the Queen/Swords, but I promise you, I do give my husband mushy, romantic valentines. Which means there's a part of me that isn't the Queen/Swords when it comes to him.

Does that make sense?

I agree. I see these two being competitive with one another. This is more a business relationship than a romantic relationship. One big difference between the two is method of operation. The QS is going to be all about policy and procedures, doing the right thing. The Magician is all about doing what it takes to win. There may be some charm being displayed to woo the QS, but also some white lies. I do think there would be passion between the 2. I also wouldn't doubt if there would be mind games being played, the biggest attraction between the two.

Thirteen

QueenPen said:
I also wouldn't doubt if there would be mind games being played, the biggest attraction between the two.

Agreed. But, unlike playing mind games on anyone else, both would take the mind games as a challenge and respect the other if they managed to pull off a "gotcha."

Or, likewise, if they were able to see thought the mind game.

QueenPen

Thirteen said:
Agreed. But, unlike playing mind games on anyone else, both would take the mind games as a challenge and respect the other if they managed to pull off a "gotcha." Or, likewise, if they were able to see thought the mind game.

Right! Lol. That's the huge attraction for the Magician toward the QS, her strong mind.