Leo Sun, Virgo Moon

Ronia said:

Thank you, Minderwiz! From you it means a lot! We're all learning.

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Yes we are - it's a never ending process, which is what makes it so fascinating

Ronia said:

This was just my point of view. For example, you are studying Hellenistic and they were far more fatalistic in their understating, as far as I know and from what I read on the Hellenistic thread. .

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Yes they were much more fatalistic but that was not down to the techniques but to the prevailing Stoic philosophy (which also heavily influenced early Christianity). However, despite that being the dominant view, you will find some Hellenistic Astrologers who are more open to a role for free will. Valens is very deterministic, Ptolemy is less so. By modern standards though all of them are more accepting of fate, than we are today. That being said is our idea of 'free will' not just as illusory as their idea of predetermination. (Discuss LOL)

I'm a bit surprised actually of the fatalistic view of namely ancient astrologers and will explain why. The idea of "Change" as the most and only certain thing in life and thus in the whole Universe is actually much older than any religion known to us today (in fact, the oldest we know also embraces change as vital force in the process energy works around and within us). It's in the core of all ancient metaphysical or purely magical techniques I personally know and I've studied that a lot. All magic and metaphysical knowledge acknowledged and accepted it as the core of nature, the core of the way energies work and the only way they can work. It's us, humans, who can not accept it still. We rebel against changes, be it a partner who goes away or the ultimate change - death. We also can not grow our faith to the point to enforce change. Either because we are too lazy and lack discipline or because we prefer to drop the weight for things happening on someone/something else. God and Fate being among the favorite "boys for beating". I know, there were women who were specially hired to mourn the dead back in the old times and loss was still considered a loss but those who were really into working with all that surrounds us were perfectly aware that nothing in life, nature and Universe is forever. I mean, educated people should know better than "Fate" or "Gods". I've always thought (and found some proofs in Aristotel's writings not so lomg ago) that all this was a theatre for the masses. Thus I find it hard to accept that those astrologers embraced the idea of things being written in stone. Becayse it's controversial to the ultimate essence of life as such, as part of nature and the whole thing we exist in. Even the Bible embraces the power of change and injects in the human the ability to perform change too... I hope I made this sound sane. LOL

P.S. Is anywhere here a thread on transits? Like where we can say "I had this and this and this happened"? I think it would be useful for everyone. My chart is bombarded already, something should happen. I'll document it when it happens.

FireHermit said:

I found out my moon sign recently and things clicked into place. I've always felt a great inner conflict and to me it doesn't get much more conflicting than a show off Leo and a hermit Virgo ..

While I found the information fascinating I'm kinda thinking well - what now? How do I use this information to move away from conflict and towards creating a more harmonious relationship between my 2 opposing sides?

I've never been a great astrology student more than it being a passing interest but now I am interested to know how astrologers actively use the knowledge and understanding they gain, to turn it towards being something productive.

I'm feeling at a definite crossroads in life, my Leo wants to come out but the stage fright is overwhelming it right now. Is this just the way I am according to astrology? Or can astrology help formulate a plan to move forward?

I hope this makes sense as its late and I'm rambling

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It makes perfect sense to me; "here is my astrology ... now what do I do with it?"

For me I like the mythic/psychological approach to astrology. It helps me understand and deal with my 'make-up'.

The Sun / Moon 'polarity' is one of the main first dynamics I look at, how they work well together and where they need to operate on separate planes ... and where they can interfere with instead of support each other.

I have Sun in Cancer but I have Moon in Leo; some say it is at odds but I see a balance and dynamic I can use ... I just have to be aware if I am' operating' on a Sun or Moon level.

I have been involved in a lot of event management and related work ... normally I just hide in the background, make sure things are okay, offer support, cook food, make people comfortable, but once I focalised a circle of 300 people ... and I was told it went off amazingly well ... but that was a magical thing, a spring equinox celebration ... right up my Moon in Leo alley ... I would have never wanted to do that for a different event.

Minderwiz said:

Yes they were much more fatalistic but that was not down to the techniques but to the prevailing Stoic philosophy (which also heavily influenced early Christianity). However, despite that being the dominant view, you will find some Hellenistic Astrologers who are more open to a role for free will. Valens is very deterministic, Ptolemy is less so. By modern standards though all of them are more accepting of fate, than we are today. That being said is our idea of 'free will' not just as illusory as their idea of predetermination. (Discuss LOL)

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I have had discussions about this before; it was said that the 'ancients' had a more real view of life and modern astrology is all mamby-pamby, new age feel good stuff. In the past some were cursed! and that was it - born under a bad star , a life of trouble.

I was partially agreeing ... but then ... nowadays we have better treatments, therapies, medicines , maybe we have better chances of changing our 'fate' with lithium or pacemakers than we do with leeches and 'mummia'?

(This post was written with an echo of Minderwiz's LOL in the psychic background )

A real view of life would always be a view of change. Life, nature, Universe - it all functions because of change. If change is blocked, life, energy, existence of the whole thing will just crash into pieces. If energy stops running and being exchanged, all will suffocate. Change is breathing. That's why in the Universe all dies and all is born again. It's about pulsation - in and out, just like a chart should be pulsating and function in constant energetical exchange. There is no other way. And from the global to the personal perspective, it's the same. Which is why I don't buy it that educated people ever were into the "Gods" and "Fate" thing, at least not as ultimatives. But I do know, and I think we all do, that such concept was successfully used to rule the masses. Just like church later turned the Bible into a set of rules that were never written in it actually and hid tons of info from the masses. It's the same old story to me. Knowledge has never been widely accessible and was never meant to be. Understanding the power of change, understanding the power of self change, would bring much troubles, not only then but today too. So, it's actually good for anyone with power that even today people lack the faith and the majority just listen and do as they are told/pursued to do. It's a very comfortable state of things.