Marseilles - Valet de Deniers (Page of Coins)

Ah yes, le Bateleur, and le Valet de Deniers are both standing à la seconde, that is in second position, a very basic, grounding position. (He has been taking ballet.) and I think they have the same milliner, but maybe not the same coiffeur -- the valet doesn't have those little planets in his hair. (I refer to the Camoin).

For this Tarot heathen, the thing which strikes most immediately about the Marseilles images, in comparison to all other decks, is the depth of feeling coming from those "crudely" drawn facial expressions. Humanity leaps off the cards. To me, this valet looks vaguely cautious or worried, yet passive, and at the same time, slightly amused...

Marseilles Valet of Coins - Alchemical Perspectives

Besides the card's suggestion of the Hermetic axiom "As above, and so below", I ran into this:

Metals were believed to actually grow within the earth, and Islamic alchemists handed onto to their European successors the theory that mercury and sulphur were the parents of metals. Thus the idea arose of the seeds or semen of metals lying within the womb of the earth, and the recovery of metals being like the process of birth, of emergence from the dark womb.

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Reference: Dictionary of Alchemy, Mark Haeffner, pp. 149-150, "Metals".

Valet de Deniers....I saw this card (although it was RWS) in the Root position of my tmgrls' Four of Swords Spread when I did a relationship reading recently. It came to me that the Q was concerned about her future with any man in terms of his being able to "provide" financial security for her. I said that it seems she tends to be concerned if a man she is dating seems to be not too concerned about money or financial security.

S. Simon sees the Valet De Deniers as

an adolescent interested in spiritual pursuits. He is a dreamer, a tender soul who never ceases to be amazed by humanity, life, and nature. His feminine temperament, has its narcissistic side but not without some justifications, since he possesses inner beauty and refinement....is fitted for meditation and study. Action for its own sake interests him not at all; he prefers to remain above day-to-day struggles.

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I read this after my reading...and the part about not worrying about day to day struggles seems to fit with the Page being a "child" in the "man's" body.

Also, on my Camoin, I see that same little button? tiny coin? in his left hand at his belt...any ideas on this. Every time I see the same button in Le Bateleur in the right hand, I see him as "dialing in the Universe" with the wand in the other hand.

terri

It's interesting that the new LS Tarot of the Druids has a Knave of Pentacles (Valet de Deniers) that is somewhat referrable in design to the Marseilles card. The knave is in the fields, planting (or is it harvesting?) a round object.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/druids/

I am curious to know why people assume the denier is buried and not simply lying on the ground. I know there are problems with perspective but these strain the credulity a little less than the idea of the coin being buried. Is this understanding based on historical authenticity or not. I have been interpreting the coin as being visible, not buried .

The valet holds exactly the same coin as the King and nowhere else does this occur between Valet and King - that the suit icon appears exactly the same. Is this meaningful?

Good point, Moongold...As I look at my Camoin, Le Roy de Deniers holds one in his right hand on his lap and looks at one in the air
(if we use the mirror position for the body facing, it would be towards the future.)

I actually see this second denier not necessarily as buried in the Valet or swimming in space as it is in Le Roi. To me it's like the "bird inthe hand better than two in the bush" Could imply look to the security earthly things that you have not what you want...or learn to want what you have not have what you want.

Or sometimes, when I see it, it comes to me that we needed focus on money/security issues, the universe will supply us with what we need. It will be there when we need it...either at our feet or coming to us from somewhere in the future.

terri

This is a good point Moongold and one that I have questioned myself. In a previous post I remember feeling that the coin had been discarded or was simply 'lying around'. I have never seen it as buried. More a case of 'this is the one he is focusing on at this moment in time'.

J.

Why is the title presented up the side of this card (I'm looking at the Fournier), rather than on the bottom? Why does it differ from all the other courts? I'm under the impression that this is a traditional TdM element?

(I'm sure this is explained somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it. In any case, it seems like a good point to revive and explain here.)

Thanks.
Mosaica

mosaica said:

Why is the title presented up the side of this card (I'm looking at the Fournier), rather than on the bottom?

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He's on secondment from another court; it was more a sidewise move than a promotion; but offers opportunities of experiencing a different area.

Glad I found this thread, because I have been getting to know my Noblet Tarot these last two or three weeks and finally took notice of the Page of Coins being the only court card to feature two of the court symbols.

I have looked over the thoughts posted here and thought I'd share my own interpretations. I never thought of the coin being buried either. My first thought of the matter was that I took it to be lost and the Page fails to see it. He is inexperienced in the ways of the world, and the lost coin signifies this.

My second thought again goes to the inexperience of the page. It makes me think of the expression, "A fool and his money are soon parted." He is careless and irresponsible with his coins and drops them on the ground wastefully.

After thinking of this, I look at the King of Coins and can't help but see him muttering to himself as he looks around, "Where has that bloody page got to with my coins?"