La Lune (the Moon) - how may it be read?

Fulgour

See you on the Nile

Diana said:
(What is the difference between a crayfish and a lobster? I see a lobster in the Marseilles cards. Is a lobster another word for a crayfish?)
Crayfish are freshwater creatures, and have same sized pincers.
Notice on the Marseille, the compass-like antennae on the crayfish.
Etymologically, the crayfish may be linked to the goddess Astarte.
 

Sophie

The crayfish is the ecrevisse - a freshwater invertebrate; the lobster is the langouste or the homard - a salt-water cousin.

If the animal in La Lune is a crayfish, then the water is freshwater - as roppo said - river or pond. Or one of our Alpine lakes ;).
 

kwaw

Historically speaking, this is one of the most important cards of the Marseille to me [IMHO]. This image is unique, as far as I am aware, to the tarot. Other images may be compared to comparable images within the time and culture within which they originated. I believe this image of the Marseille Luna is original to the tarot itself, at least I have not so far found it anywhere else. If it is original to the Marseille, then I feel that it offers the best clue to the ideas behind the designer/redactor of the tarot Marseille. It is not an image copied or borrowed, but an original image an artist/designer has produced with certain associations in mind to replicate, diogenes, eclipse, nodes, the metanic cycle etc.

Kwaw
 

firemaiden

Still, how may the moon be read?

jmd noted that it was often a dire card. I was surprised, in watching the movie, the Red Violin (movie with a tarot reading) that the first card drawn was the Moon - and it was used to set up all the dire things ... a long long voyage, lots of diseases, infirmity, etc. etc. Unspoken, but not unpredicted, were the deaths of the querant in childbirth, and birth and death of the child.

I wondered if the Moon card, with its twin pillars marking a narrow passage way, and the creature emerging from the pond, has ever been read as as childbirth.

In popular lore, domestic animals, (horses and dogs) are said to be able to detect spirits, react to souls passing over, and ghosts; might these barking dogs and the symbolism of the passageway marked by the colums, not also predict the passage of death?

I loved Kwaw's revelations about the association with Diogenes and Alexander, and the secret association of the crayfish with Diogenes. Cool stuff!
 

kwaw

Fulgour said:
Crayfish are freshwater creatures, and have same sized pincers.

Have not checked it out, but memory says that the a crayfish has one claw ['the left?] larger than the other. Memory not reliable, probably wrong.

Kwaw
 

Fulgour

Hang in there, Kwaw

kwaw said:
Have not checked it out, but memory says that the a crayfish has one claw ['the left?] larger than the other. Memory not reliable, probably wrong. Kwaw
Having visited your Yahoo! profile, I'd say memory ought not to
ever be a worry. In fact, from what I've seen :eek: none at all ;)
 

kwaw

firemaiden said:
I loved Kwaw's revelations about the association with Diogenes and Alexander, and the secret association of the crayfish with Diogenes. Cool stuff!

It was 'Roppo' who first mentioned the association with diogenes in this thread, I just took Roppo's lead and ran with it. Cool stuff Roppo.

Kwaw
 

Sophie

I don't know if it is often a dire card in the absolute sense of predicting dire events (though it can also be that). Its direness might come from its air of menace, inspiring fear (I thought of the Hound of the Baskervilles when I first saw it), or the impression that we are caught in a net of illusions; we might be feeling an imprecise malaise. The malaise could come from our human tides - our waxing and waning - feeling one thing one day, and something else the next day. It is the opposite of all stability and certainty, that's why it disturbs us.

I like the image of the birth. Birth often inspires the new mother-to-be with apprehension before - not just for the pain, but the baby- who will this new creature be, will I be up to being a mother, etc. etc.

I agree - the Red Violin tarot scene (and what follows) is profoundly disturbing.

I think, rather than dire, I would use that word - disturbing. Even things that turn out well can disturb us at first, by their lack of certainty, their apparent strangeness. My sister, who is a Cancerian and very lunar, told me it took her a whole week to get over the strangeness of becoming a mother for the first time, which made her feel very uncomfortable, fearful, anxious - as well as happy (well I have the lovely photos of her tired smiling moon-face!)

I like to walk in an Alpine forest in moonlight - nature rises, takes over, and creatures impossible to imagine are about. This card also reminds me of Milton's Comus - anything can happen at night in the moonlight, it is the reign of disorder and reversals, and of beautiful, lustful, dangerous Comus.

The moon is beautiful even if she is disturbing. I am always drawn to her and though she - the moon, La Lune - can leave me feeling strange, off-centre, sometimes even fearful, she also makes me more aware of the invisible, the uncanny, and a certan sense of purity that cuts through all this strangeness. And the moon features so much in poetry!

Moon can be madness, too - mad as in eccentric, or deranged, or playing a game of mirrors and madness, for love: there is a passage from the play Cyrano de Bergerac where Cyrano pretends to have dropped to earth from the moon, in order to distract De Guiche, a suitor of Roxane's, whom he loves, but whom he is helping marry Christian (a very XVIII-La Lune thing, that). Oh, come on, it's Sunday evening...I'll indulge you if you indulge me ;)

DE GUICHE (looking at the house):
[…]
Where fell that man from?

CYRANO (sitting up, and speaking with a Gascon accent):
From the moon!

DE GUICHE:
From?. . .

CYRANO (in a dreamy voice):
What's o'clock?

DE GUICHE:
He's lost his mind, for sure!

CYRANO:
What hour? What country this? What month? What day?

DE GUICHE:
But. . .

CYRANO:
I am stupefied!

DE GUICHE:
Sir!

CYRANO:
Like a bomb
I fell from the moon!

DE GUICHE (impatiently):
Come now!

CYRANO (rising, in a terrible voice):
I say,--the moon!

DE GUICHE (recoiling):
Good, good! let it be so!. . .He's raving mad!

CYRANO (walking up to him):
I say from the moon! I mean no metaphor!. . .

DE GUICHE:
But. . .

CYRANO:
Was't a hundred years--a minute, since?
--I cannot guess what time that fall embraced!--
That I was in that saffron-colored ball?

DE GUICHE (shrugging his shoulders):
Good! let me pass!

CYRANO (intercepting him):
Where am I? Tell the truth!
Fear not to tell! Oh, spare me not! Where? where?
Have I fallen like a shooting star?

DE GUICHE:
Morbleu!

CYRANO:
The fall was lightning-quick! no time to choose
Where I should fall--I know not where it be!
Oh, tell me! Is it on a moon or earth,
that my posterior weight has landed me?

DE GUICHE:
I tell you, Sir. . .

CYRANO (with a screech of terror, which makes De Guiche start back):
No? Can it be? I'm on
A planet where men have black faces?

DE GUICHE (putting a hand to his face):
What?

CYRANO (feigning great alarm):
Am I in Africa? A native you?

DE GUICHE (who has remembered his mask):
This mask of mine. . .

CYRANO (pretending to be reassured):
In Venice? ha!--or Rome?

DE GUICHE (trying to pass):
A lady waits. .

CYRANO (quite reassured):
Oh-ho! I am in Paris!

DE GUICHE (smiling in spite of himself):
The fool is comical!

CYRANO:
You laugh?

DE GUICHE:
I laugh,
But would get by!

CYRANO (beaming with joy):
I have shot back to Paris!
(Quite at ease, laughing, dusting himself, bowing):
Come--pardon me--by the last water-spout,
Covered with ether,--accident of travel!
My eyes still full of star-dust, and my spurs
Encumbered by the planets' filaments!
(Picking something off his sleeve):
Ha! on my doublet?--ah, a comet's hair!. . .

(He puffs as if to blow it away.)

DE GUICHE (beside himself):
Sir!. . .

CYRANO (just as he is about to pass, holds out his leg as if to show him
something and stops him):
In my leg--the calf--there is a tooth
Of the Great Bear, and, passing Neptune close,
I would avoid his trident's point, and fell,
Thus sitting, plump, right in the Scales! My weight
Is marked, still registered, up there in heaven!
(Hurriedly preventing De Guiche from passing, and detaining him by the button
of his doublet):
I swear to you that if you squeezed my nose
It would spout milk!

DE GUICHE:
Milk?

CYRANO:
From the Milky Way!

DE GUICHE:
Oh, go to hell!

CYRANO (crossing his arms):
I fall, Sir, out of heaven!
Now, would you credit it, that as I fell
I saw that Sirius wears a nightcap? True!
(Confidentially):
The other Bear is still too small to bite.
(Laughing):
I went through the Lyre, but I snapped a cord;
(Grandiloquent):
I mean to write the whole thing in a book;
The small gold stars, that, wrapped up in my cloak,
I carried safe away at no small risks,
Will serve for asterisks i' the printed page!

DE GUICHE:
Come, make an end! I want. . .

CYRANO:
Oh-ho! You are sly!

DE GUICHE:
Sir!

CYRANO:
You would worm all out of me!--the way
The moon is made, and if men breathe and live
In its rotund cucurbita?

DE GUICHE (angrily):
No, no!
I want. . .

CYRANO:
Ha, ha!--to know how I got up?
Hark, it was by a method all my own.

DE GUICHE (wearied):
He's mad!

CYRANO(contemptuously):
No! not for me the stupid eagle
Of Regiomontanus, nor the timid
Pigeon of Archytas--neither of those!

DE GUICHE:
Ay, 'tis a fool! But 'tis a learned fool!

CYRANO:
No imitator I of other men!
(De Guiche has succeeded in getting by, and goes toward Roxane's door. Cyrano
follows him, ready to stop him by force):
Six novel methods, all, this brain invented!

DE GUICHE (turning round):
Six?

CYRANO (volubly):
First, with body naked as your hand,
Festooned about with crystal flacons, full
O' th' tears the early morning dew distils;
My body to the sun's fierce rays exposed
To let it suck me up, as 't sucks the dew!

DE GUICHE (surprised, making one step toward Cyrano):
Ah! that makes one!

CYRANO (stepping back, and enticing him further away):
And then, the second way,
To generate wind--for my impetus--
To rarefy air, in a cedar case,
By mirrors placed icosahedron-wise.

DE GUICHE (making another step):
Two!

CYRANO (still stepping backward):
Or--for I have some mechanic skill--
To make a grasshopper, with springs of steel,
And launch myself by quick succeeding fires
Saltpeter-fed to the stars' pastures blue!

DE GUICHE (unconsciously following him and counting on his fingers):
Three!

CYRANO:
Or (since fumes have property to mount)--
To charge a globe with fumes, sufficiently
To carry me aloft!

DE GUICHE (same play, more and more astonished):
Well, that makes four!

CYRANO:
Or smear myself with marrow from a bull,
Since, at the lowest point of Zodiac,
Phoebus well loves to suck that marrow up!

DE GUICHE (amazed):
Five!

CYRANO (who, while speaking, had drawn him to the other side of the square
near a bench):
Sitting on an iron platform--thence
To throw a magnet in the air. This is
A method well conceived--the magnet flown,
Infallibly the iron will pursue:
Then quick! relaunch your magnet, and you thus
Can mount and mount unmeasured distances!

DE GUICHE:
Here are six excellent expedients!
Which of the six chose you?

CYRANO:
Why, none!--a seventh!

DE GUICHE:
Astonishing! What was it?

CYRANO:
I'll recount.

DE GUICHE:
This wild eccentric becomes interesting!

CYRANO (making a noise like the waves, with weird gestures):
Houuh! Houuh!

DE GUICHE:
Well.

CYRANO:
You have guessed?

DE GUICHE:
Not I!

CYRANO:
The tide!
I' th' witching hour when the moon woos the wave,
I laid me, fresh from a sea-bath, on the shore--
And, failing not to put head foremost--for
The hair holds the sea-water in its mesh--
I rose in air, straight! straight! like angel's flight,
And mounted, mounted, gently, effortless,. . .
When lo! a sudden shock! Then. . .
Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, III, X

Poets and madmen are siblings, of course, and both are children of Madame La Lune.
 

Fulgour

The lunatic, the lover, and the poet
Are of imagination all compact:
One sees more devils than vast hell can hold,
That is, the madman: the lover, all as frantic,
Sees Helen's beauty in a brow of Egypt:
The poet's eye, in a fine frenzy rolling,
Doth glance from heaven to earth,
from earth to heaven;

And as imagination bodies forth
The forms of things unknown, the poet's pen
Turns them to shapes, and gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name.

Such tricks hath strong imagination,
That if it would but apprehend some joy,
It comprehends some bringer of that joy;
Or in the night, imagining some fear,
How easy is a bush supposed a bear!


Wm. Shakespeare
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Act V scene 1
 

Parzival

La Lune

From a scientific side of interpretation, the moon is change with cyclical rhythm to it. The moon changes from nothing to cradle to half to gibbous to full to nothing, over and over and over, obviously. The crayfish discards and regenerates its exoskeleton again and again. It hides down in the mud bottom as it regenerates, hidden away when most vulnerable to attack. Re-exoskeleton'd (coined word), it crawls out to catch its prey, armored and ready. And so the moon waxes and wanes. Fluctuation.
Meanwhile, the two dogs are mesmerized and fixated by the moon, and we are held entranced by it too, into the dark unknown. Lunacy.
It may mean a devouring by pre-logical forces, or a healing through imagination and feeling.
Such a wide range of meaning is hard to label-down or formulate.
Literary associations abound, including Juliet's "Do not swear by the inconstant moon," and Goethe in his Faust II, taking his main character into a full-moon Otherworld before reincarnating him into the dawn (opening scene).
Where would Cyrano be without moon? And Isis? Yeats' "Cat "?-- in the moon...
Certainly, this is a key to the Marseilles, as Kwaw indicated. It's also a complex key to the human psyche. Irene Gad, in Tarot and Individuation, describes the moon as "beyond scientific explanation". But we try to reign it in with our reason.