The Fool and Uranus/ Mercury

I found this association between the Fool and Uranus/ Mercury meaning open mindedness and curiosity. I think it is from one of Hajo Banzhaf books. In my research I found the Fool associated with the element AIR, also with Uranus sometimes, but never with Mercury. What do you think of this?

Can it also be associated with the Aquarius sign?

I'm using RWS deck.

Associations depend on the deck/Fool is simply Air in RWS

As Ravenest showed you in your other thread about the cards and astrology, there have been many astrological associations assigned to the cards by many different tarot scholars and deck creators. What this means is that you have two choices. (1) You can pick your favorite associations, the ones that strike you as right (be they your own or someone else's), and stick to them no matter the deck. Or (2) you can consider the deck you're using and what the deck creator thinks. I usually think it best to listen to the deck creator(s) as they devised particular images based on such things, and such images won't make as much sense if you impose your own astrological wants/needs on them.

In RWS the Fool is Air because the creators of this deck were "old school" in their astrology and didn't use either Uranus or Neptune, even though both planets were known by then. RWS, instead, uses the Astrological bodies: Sun, Mercury, Venus, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, the twelve zodiac signs and three of the four elements: Air, Water, Fire. In more modern decks, Uranus is considered an acceptable substitute for the Fool as it is related to "Air." However, you must remember that the cards ruled by planets do not also have a sign attached to them. Mercury rules the Magician, not Gemini. Neptune rules the Hanged Man, not Pisces.

This is because other cards have ownership of those signs. The whole idea of including planets and elements was to make sure that the cards didn't *share* signs. Otherwise they could have just said the Fool is Aquarius and so is the Star. But they didn't so that. So, if you're using a deck like RWS, and respecting the astrological assignments of that deck, then the only Aquarius card in the deck is the Star. Not the Fool.

Once again, however, if you feel strongly about certain signs belonging to certain cards then that is entirely up to you and you can see them that way. But if you're asking us for the bottom line "rule" on the subject, then we have to say that, in RWS, the Fool is simply "Air." He is not Mercury in RWS, and he is not specifically Aquarius. He is, purely and simply, about the element of Air, and could indicate anyone who is have a day where air signs dominate their lives.

Thoth Deck?

Just to add, if you really want to go full-out-astrology in tarot, I recommend you pick up and start to study the Thoth deck. Although RWS & Crowley were from the same Golden Dawn tradition in regards to tarot, Crowley was much more vocal and emphatic about discussing the astrological sign combinations of each and every card (and had some strong disagreements about them and other aspects of the tarot with Waite).

Which is why I think his deck a better one for someone as astrologically minded as yourself.

Adde said:

I found this association between the Fool and Uranus/ Mercury meaning open mindedness and curiosity. I think it is from one of Hajo Banzhaf books. In my research I found the Fool associated with the element AIR, also with Uranus sometimes, but never with Mercury. What do you think of this?

Can it also be associated with the Aquarius sign?

I'm using RWS deck.

Click to expand...

Looking at it in a different way - just the Mercury Uranus link ;


The 'higher' transpersonal triad is

...........Uranus


Pluto................Neptune



The 'lower' personal planetary triad is

.......... Mercury


Mars ..................Venus


It can be seen that Uranus is a 'higher octave' of Mercury. Also Attributing the Fool to the top of this 'Tree' one can see the association through the central axis that relates to elemental Air (also 'breath / spirit') the left side is fire and the right water - as we look at it) .

One could even extend the idea to ; the 'higher octave' of the Magician is the Fool ( a hint of the Taoist sage here).

I have no idea if that has any thing to do with Banzhaf ... or anyone else though.

Thirteen said:

Just to add, if you really want to go full-out-astrology in tarot, I recommend you pick up and start to study the Thoth deck. Although RWS & Crowley were from the same Golden Dawn tradition in regards to tarot, Crowley was much more vocal and emphatic about discussing the astrological sign combinations of each and every card (and had some strong disagreements about them and other aspects of the tarot with Waite).

Which is why I think his deck a better one for someone as astrologically minded as yourself.

Click to expand...

Right, the Thoth deck is more explicit, astrologically. While it remains true that the Trumps are either assigned either to signs or to planets, Crowley goes as far as, for example, depicting Venus and the Moon on The Hierophant since this card is attributed with Taurus, where Venus rules and the Moon is exalted.

However, the outer planets are not originally part of the Golden Dawn system; there is no agreement as to their Tarot attributions, i.e. the Hermetic Tarot (another GD derivative) has Pluto as the Lord of The Fool. The more common association however indeed seems to be Uranus which makes a lot of sense as this planet represents the unorthodox and unexpected in Astrology.

Regarding Uranus as "octave" of Mercury (likewise for the other outers as Ravenest has explained very well) is a concept that goes back to Theosophical authors. I have never thought of translating this to the Trump Cards the way Ravenest suggests, but his idea is interesting.

I am not aware that Crowley didn't agree with Waite's astrological attributions. To my knowledge, they are both using the Golden Dawn system.

Michael Sternbach said:

I am not aware that Crowley didn't agree with Waite's astrological attributions.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of the Strength (Lust) vs. Justice (Adjustment) discrepancy. I won't get into it here as that would be very off-topic and there's plenty of exhaustive threads on it in RWS & Thoth forums for those wanting to explore it. My understanding was that it did have something to do with astrological assignments (not primary ones: Leo/Libra, but secondary ones); I'm no expert, however, in either man, nor in astrological scholarship of the tarot. So if I'm totally wrong about that, my apologies.

Those titles are different and the Atu numbers are swapped (between RW and Thoth) but the astrology seems the same ; Strength / Lust- a woman with a lion - Leo, Justice / Adjustment - woman with sword and scales -Libra.

ravenest said:

Those titles are different and the Atu numbers are swapped (between RW and Thoth) but the astrology seems the same ; Strength / Lust- a woman with a lion - Leo, Justice / Adjustment - woman with sword and scales -Libra.

Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm no expert and it doesn't matter. My point was simply that an astrologically minded tarot user would probably appreciate the Thoth deck. Whether the two are or are not identical in their associations...really doesn't matter a jot to me.