For Tarot Deck Creators - What is tarot?

euripides

The various and often deep spiritual thoughts that many people have mentioned are an important and relevant part of Tarot for me. But that said, that word 'structure' is perhaps key.

The basic framework that accretes all our layers of symbolism and iconography, that carries meaning, that supports interpretation...that is Tarot.

The 22 majors from the fool to the world, ....the four suits of coins, wands, swords and staves, the court cards and the numbers one to ten. Within this basic framework there are important aspects - the numbering of the Fool, Death, Strength and Justice, pages or princesses, the attribution of the Elements - that vary, but are nonetheless 'there'.... that is part of the Tarot.

But wait... there's more. Don't take the foregoing comment out of context!

I'd just been considering this, as it seems to me that many decks that are supposedly 'Tarot' are not. They are oracles which follow the core Tarot pattern, in terms of the number of cards. But often something is missing.

Meaning. Those images carry well-established patterns of meaning. The Majors that tell the Fool's Journey, for example. When a deck diverges too far, that story cannot be told, or becomes changed beyond recognition.

I think this is true of the Minor Arcana too. There's that word - Arcana. An aranum: a deep secret or mystery. Specialized knowledge. There's an implication, to me, that Tarot is the carrier of a particular set of secrets. Not whatever secrets the artist and writer care to refer to - limiting or distorting or obscuring..... (I'm talking about the pure form of Tarot here. Artists and writers bringing their unique perspective to tarot is immensely valuable. I'm not dissing that at all.)

The decks I'm familiar with are the Tarot de Marseilles, Thoth and Rider-Waite-Smith. I'm beginning to know something of the TdM history, and to me, its veracity is certain. I feel as though it evolved, rather than being created out of nothing, its roots run deep.

The Thoth and the RWS I know a little of, but not enough to feel I can comment on them in the context of this thread.

I've kinda wandered from one idea to another here, so I hope this makes some sort of sense.

Euri
 

Colly34

euripides said:
I'd just been considering this, as it seems to me that many decks that are supposedly 'Tarot' are not. They are oracles which follow the core Tarot pattern, in terms of the number of cards. But often something is missing.

I believe this to be true also, Euri.
As an artist I have created a oracle deck but I can't seem to get beyond the feeling that I an limited, as though I can not go beyond my own personal psychology, even the collective seems narrow, whereas with tarot I feel I am intouch with something "other"

euripides said:
I think this is true of the Minor Arcana too. There's that word - Arcana. An aranum: a deep secret or mystery. Specialized knowledge. There's an implication, to me, that Tarot is the carrier of a particular set of secrets. Not whatever secrets the artist and writer care to refer to - limiting or distorting or obscuring..... (I'm talking about the pure form of Tarot here. Artists and writers bringing their unique perspective to tarot is immensely valuable. I'm not dissing that at all.)

"the pure form of Tarot" now that's interesting and the basis for a whole new discussion!

Can we engage with this pure form of Tarot? I believe we can, although it takes disipline and there are mant pitfalls and distractions.

Colly
 

Major Tom

karacol said:
Tarot is an interactive myth.

Thanks very much for reviving this discussion. I like your answers. :)

I do think it's possible to begin the journey of creating a tarot deck without any prior knowledge, but that the individual undertaking that journey will gain knowledge about tarot and themselves along the way. The whole process is a learning process.

That's why I encourage those just starting out to look at the Marseilles, the RWS and the Thoth. Everyone needs to get a sense of the underlying structure.

Colly34 said:
For me the images on the tarot cards are what have been called "telesmatic images" by that I understand it to mean they are images that can alter consciousness when contemplated correctly, i.e during meditation.

Robert V. O'Neill in his Tarot Symbolism suggests in his chapter 'The Art of Memory' that the tarot can be used as a meditative tool to achieve God-union. The idea is to hold all 22 images of the trumps in one's mind's eye at once. How much easier would that be if one had drawn the images? ;)

I, for one, think it's a shame that most people seem to have moved away from using tarot as a spiritual tool. *shrugs* I suppose in many ways the world has become more secular and we are all 'poorer' for that.

euripides said:
The Majors that tell the Fool's Journey, for example. When a deck diverges too far, that story cannot be told, or becomes changed beyond recognition.

The Fool's Journey is not a universally accepted myth. I'd urge you to read The Bateleur's Tale. This tale resonates for me because I don't consider myself advanced enough to encompass all implied by the symbolism of The Fool. ;)

euripides said:
There's an implication, to me, that Tarot is the carrier of a particular set of secrets. Not whatever secrets the artist and writer care to refer to - limiting or distorting or obscuring..... (I'm talking about the pure form of Tarot here. Artists and writers bringing their unique perspective to tarot is immensely valuable. I'm not dissing that at all.)

You will find there are some who are quite hostile to the idea of a 'pure' form of tarot, so in that respect it is a dangerous concept. Many will ask you to show them one. :laugh:

For me, the pure form of tarot can only exist in the world of ideas. It cannot exist in physical form. Think of how most of us would respond to someone who claimed to have produced a 'pure' tarot. ;)

That said, I do feel that we as creators of tarot decks do have a responsibility to do the best we can. Hence this discussion.

Thanks for taking part everyone. :)
 

Rosanne

I used to have preconceived ideas about what was Tarot. Not any more.
But the nearest I can come to is this-
Tarot is an ancient system of Divination (in all uses of the word) using a deck of illustrated cards.
It is interesting that Magic/Image/Magi/Imagination all are from the same root word.
I may achieve some wisdom by developing an ability to creatively visualise or imagine when looking at these illustrations; or trying to create my own. Or not. I may just collect them in bundles of 22/78/80.
~Rosanne
 

euripides

Major Tom said:
.....
The Fool's Journey is not a universally accepted myth. I'd urge you to read The Bateleur's Tale. This tale resonates for me because I don't consider myself advanced enough to encompass all implied by the symbolism of The Fool. ;)
Oh, interesting. I've got some thoughts on the Fool, but they don't really belong in this thread. I feel that its possible to see him very differently from the neophyte setting out.... more on that elsewhere!


You will find there are some who are quite hostile to the idea of a 'pure' form of tarot, so in that respect it is a dangerous concept. Many will ask you to show them one. :laugh:

For me, the pure form of tarot can only exist in the world of ideas. It cannot exist in physical form. Think of how most of us would respond to someone who claimed to have produced a 'pure' tarot. ;)

Gosh I hope they don't (ask me to show them one)! -world of ideas- - that's it. The Platonic Form of Tarot. Could it be that is why so many of us are looking for 'The One', or make one Tarot and then go on to create another? As an artist, I know that nothing I make is never quite as I saw it in my mind's eye.

The awareness of what a Tarot -could- be is immensely daunting to me as I prepare to begin my own.

And also, that vision of what Tarot is, that Ideal Form - is there one Absolute, or is there one for each of us?
 

euripides

Rosanne said:
It is interesting that Magic/Image/Magi/Imagination all are from the same root word.

oh, now that is a very interesting point, Rosanne......

I like the etymology of inspiration. In-spire in-breathing, being breathed into by (a) God...
 

victoria.star

another etymology...

An eytmology that interests me when contemplating tarot, is the 'divine' in divination...(all from the Old French, devin)...
divine: to make out as if out of supernatural insight
divine: soothsayer, seer, theologian
divine: pertaining to God or to a god

The idea of divination connected with tarot seems to me to be a contemplation of spiritual insight...
What that contemplation accomplishes (stories, foretelling, healing) is also interesting and perhaps as varied as the persons 'divining,' the 'diviners.'

Just some thoughts!
Happy taroting!
 

solarmoon

the cards or the deck - changing things a bit.

The cards may make up the deck and the deck my consist of the cards, but they are not the same. every deck has its own "personality" (I'm not saying that it's a alive or that it thinks, because it doesn't- it uses the energies of the reader (or querant) to find the answer the they seek within their subconscience).
Have you ever tried to do a reading for yourself with some-elses deck (as in you both have a r/w but you're using theirs) ? the deck is the same as your's but it's different.

In my eyes the Tarot is more than an introspective tool, but it's only that. It's more than pen to paper images. the images don't have a fixed meanings they have symbols (the I-ching, astorogy, elements, kabbalah) and images themselves to guild your interitation of the cards.the Cards are given a name (a very powerful thing) and a story.... the power of the cards, is form you, but it's also within them.

I feel like I'm babbling, but it's very hard for me to put things in words. BUT I'm not confused, just speachless.

I'm making a deck ("solar moon" - like my name)... but I'm worried, because the first card I drew, wasn't like other decks. It had penticals as fire, swords as earth, wands as air, and cups as water. I stoped then to do more research (when it doubt find an answer) :p

anyway, I've chewed your ear off, and I haven't responed to the other comments.... I meant to, but I got carried away. sorry.
 

solarmoon

Chronata said:
The tarot is a door...or a gateway, beyond which is a whole magical universe beckoning... .


Chronata said:
Or...once through that door... you can find a path (there are so many here) that leads you off to really explore the wonders and vastness of this whole universe that is now open to you.


when I read this I thought "yes". But it's not really yes (for me). Because the tarot is an idvidual thing ... different for everyone. For me tarot is a doorway, but not to the universe, but to a deep level of sub consciousness.

I think it would be alot easier for me to quote ost of what mythos said, but again ....

Arcana said:
Tarot is not mainly about divination for me, I rather see that as sort of a side-effect. I hardly ever do a spread. To me, it’s not so much a tool as it is a vessel for esoteric knowledge. In my own tarotdeck, I have combined all sorts of teachings – among others theosophical, hermetic, pagan. .

that's really great.

I would also like to quote what karacol said, but I've realised that I'm being de-constructive now.... sorry.
 

firecatpickles

solarmoon said:
It had penticals as fire, swords as earth, wands as air, and cups as water. I stoped then to do more research (when it doubt find an answer) :p
I say, "you go, girl" or whatever...

This is exactly how I interpret my pip decks. This is the configuration for some of the cartomancy systems around, too.

Definitely keep us posted on your progress. You may want to start a new Thread in this Forum & Link images, etc.