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Unveiling: "Sol Invictus" - The God Tarot

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Quote:
Originally Posted by inanna_tarot
Can the God not be a loving and caring Father?
If you think the deck is about the hatred of the feminine principle then you havent read the thread or the website carefully enough. I suggest you take another look,

Sezo
x
Ok, fair point. I've had another read of the website. So the father can be loving and caring. But I still want a mother around. I'm not homophobic, I've had some very close, trusted friends who were gay. But I just don't see myself anywhere in those cards. There's very few females. You can separate sex and gender all you like, and say that God incorporates both, but if I see a picture of a man and call it 'him', well its a man to me - I don't feel included. If you want absence of gender, make them hermaphrodites or use non-figurative forms.

Incidentally, there's a lot of contemporary research arguing against the theory that gender is a social construct. Just witness the trouble they've had with intersex children being raised one way or the other, growing up to find that they made a major mistake. Hormones and genes are powerful things. Certainly social expectations may effect how one's sex and orientation express themselves, but that's a different issue.

I can see where you're coming from, I think, its just that the images, the worldview I see expressed in those cards, doesn't seem to have any relevance at all to my life.

best
Euri
Top   #31
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Hi Euripedes,

Thanks for commenting in this thread - it's always good to hear an opposite viewpoint! Sol Invictus: The God Tarot is a deck aimed at those who wish to explore the Divine Masculine within world mythology and themselves. If the user of this deck doesn't have that desire, then the deck is not for them - simple as that. In the same way there are decks out there exploring the Divine Feminine, which many people don't connect with simply because there are no men/males/masculine images in it. Again, that's fair enough - some people need to explore one side of the coin whilst others need to explore the other side. The God Tarot would be pointless and useless to those who do not feel a need to explore the Masculine aspects of the Divine, and I wouldn't want to try to 'convert' people to it at all.

However, there are a few points that need answering...

The God Tarot is not trying to go for a complete absence of gender. Rather, it is trying to challenge the (what we consider to be old fashioned) view that only female figures (be they Goddesses or humans) can be nurturing and creative, whilst only male figures (be they Gods or humans) can be assertive, logical, and aggressive. We are doing this by showing that in world mythology, the attributes we traditionally consider to be 'feminine' (such as those exemplified by III The Empress and II The High Priestess) can be found expressed in the stories of men and Gods as well. Via this, we hope to show that these attributes, characteristics and archetypes found in the Tarot and throughout the language of neo-Paganism and the occult are not intrinsically linked to gender: just as Queer Theory and other social theory posits that just because one has a vagina doesn't make one automatically sympathetic; or that just because one has a penis doesn't make one automatically aggressive.

The deck DOES have an Empress, but we felt the title was out-of-context for the deck, as is true of the High Priestess (which has become Inner Wisdom) and the Nurturers: calling four Gods 'queens' would more likely send readers into giggles that convey the card meanings!

This deck is also not tied to sexuality and in particular homosexuality. So please don't feel that disliking the deck makes people think you're homophobic! We feel that anybody of any gender and sexual preference can use this deck if they so wish (e.g. if they want to explore the Divine Masculine.) It isn't founded on the basis of exclusion of the Feminine at all either: we felt that there are enough decks out there that explore that side of things brilliantly, but now it's time for the other half of the story. Women appear in some of the cards (particularly in the IV The Lovers - Isis and Osiris) but, as with the Goddess decks out there that don't tell the Gods' story, this deck isn't telling the Goddess' story, and so they do not feature prominently.

Thanks all for your comments!

Blessings,

Kiama
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divine masculine


Thanks, Klama, for clarifying those points. I think you've expressed your aims well. Thanks also for appreciating my viewpoint, rather than just rejecting it. A pleasure to discuss issues with open minds.

I can see the value in exploring the Divine Masculine. I wonder if perhaps the title of the deck, or a subtitle, should reflect that more? But then again, I guess I should be accustomed to the Judaeo-Christian Masculine God, which is always HIM (despite their arguments to the contrary, they think of their god as Male in every way), excluding the female... in some ways this actually serves to highlight the very exlusive nature of that tradition. I don't mean this negatively: I mean, you've consciously set out to explore how these traditionally 'female' qualities are expressed in masculine form. (I know you've said more than that, but to get the main point...) - while the church that I know has that as part and parcel of its doctrine, with no thought to those that it excludes - particularly in the protestant church, who have done away with Mary and the saints, who were something of a Catholic Pantheon.

In a sense the Goddess tarot is a companion deck to yours. Actually, that isn't a deck that appeals much to me either, despite its beautiful art. Perhaps I could use them for some issues, where the reading or meditation is strongly focussed on masculinity or femininity. Mixed feelings I guess.. I was just looking at Lee Burnstein(?)'s Gay Tarot, which is lovely, very positive, but again the absence of mothers... just as a strongly female deck might have no fathers, no sons... I can see the need for really positive models, but I do feel it could throw an awkward skew on some readings. You'd have to use it for particular issues.

There's the possibility, in other decks, of mixing up the stereotypes. But then there's the risk of tokenism. As a writer, I often ask myself am I going 'against type' for the sake of it, or is it a real character quirk? It can be difficult to differentiate between stereotype and archetype. The Gaian tarot is looking very promising in this respect.

I do like your solution of calling the Queens 'Nurturers'. Though I'm not sure this is a quality I'd apply to the Queen of Swords. She's the type that would hire a nanny! But perhaps nurturing the life of the mind.

best of luck with your endeavors!

Euri
Top   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euripides
I do like your solution of calling the Queens 'Nurturers'. Though I'm not sure this is a quality I'd apply to the Queen of Swords. She's the type that would hire a nanny! But perhaps nurturing the life of the mind.
This is precisely what we thought of the Queen of Swords - nurturing the mind, communication, and thought. As the Airy part of Water, the Nurturer of Swords communicates as well as helps things grow: communication that plants the seeds of ideas in the minds of others, and allows them to explore it. Hence we chose Socrates - possibly the greatest teacher; nurtured thought and philosophy in others by just communicating and conversing with them; but also had a keen intellect and analytical mind set and wasn't afraid to make waves and cut away what he believed to be rubbish (one of the reasons he was executed in the end.)

Quote:
I was just looking at Lee Burnstein(?)'s Gay Tarot, which is lovely, very positive, but again the absence of mothers... just as a strongly female deck might have no fathers, no sons... I can see the need for really positive models, but I do feel it could throw an awkward skew on some readings. You'd have to use it for particular issues.
I guess it all depends on how one views oneself. For instance, when I see a man or male image in a Tarot deck, I don't feel that I am not in that card: because my spiritual, emotional, and mental life is not female. It doesn't have gender. Hence, I feel I can relate just as easily to Gods and male images as to Goddesses and female images, and I hope this is the spirit in which Sol Invictus: the God Tarot is taken. But, again, for those who don't think this way that's fine: the deck just isn't for them. We never set out to create a deck to become 'universal': a deck like the Rider Waite or Connolly or Universal Waite. This deck is definitely a more specific deck, and we understand that it's not for everybody.

As to the title of the deck - it was tough thinking one up. "God Tarot" can have some connotations of Jehovah-God exclusively, but we were at a loss for other nammes. We hope "Sol Invictus" is an adequate name however - it came about through some weird 'coincidences'...

Blessings,

Kiama

PS - Nic and I have been talking (only briefly mind you) about creating a Goddess Tarot after this one... Same style, same theoretical basis, but with Goddesses instead of Gods. (We're gluttons for punishment...)
Top   #34
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Quote:
PS - Nic and I have been talking (only briefly mind you) about creating a Goddess Tarot after this one... Same style, same theoretical basis, but with Goddesses instead of Gods. (We're gluttons for punishment...)
Oh definitely! they'd be perfect companions.

And Sol Invictus is a pretty cool name. Latin always sound so dramatic.

Euri
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Oh my! Wonderful! Love them!!!!
Top   #36
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Updates!!!!


Hi folks,

Four new cards have been put onto the website, and a re-drawn Three of Cups along with them. This time round we have:

- Master (King) Cups: Enki (Mesopotamian)
- Six of Cups: Peter Pan (Victorian Literary Figure)
- Five of Cups: Ngalmin and the Murinbungo (Australian Aborigine)
- Four of Wands: Agni (Hindu)

In progress are the Eight of Swords (Samson); Eight of Cups (Siddhatha Gautama); and Two of Wands (Alexander the Great).

Oh, and for those of you who were curious as to the publication status of Sol Invictus: The God Tarot, unfortunately, Nic and I received a letter from Llewellyn yesterday saying that the deck was not suitable for their needs.

Blessings,

Kiama
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Unhappy


Can't wait to see it in print, what a pity Llewellyn was not interested in it.
Top   #38
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Added: Excerpts from the Book


Hi folks,

New to the God Tarot website is an Excerpts section, containing excerpts from the book-in-progress for the God Tarot. So far, we've got the completed Majors excerpted (is that even a word?) and when you view the cards themselves there is a link to the relevant excerpt. We hope this adds to peoples' understanding of the cards on the website.

Soon to come will be the Minors' excerpts.

Blessings,

Kiama
Top   #39
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Hi folks! UPDATES!!! Six new cards this time:

Awakening (Page) of Coins - Harpokrates (Egyptian)
Two of Wands - Alexander the Great (Historical Figure)
Two of Swords - Papa Legba (Vodou)
Five of Swords - Bridal Thor and Loki (Norse)
Eight of Swords - Samson (Biblical)
Eight of Cups - Siddartha Gautama (Buddhist)

So, the entire suit of Swords is now finished.

Currently in the works are the Page of Wands (this one is proving tricky) and the Eight of Coins.

Blessings,

Kiama
Top   #40




 


 


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