Justice - relationship outcome!

caridwen

Plato isn't that difficult to understand or work with.:D

Platonic love refers to his idea of the Ideal. He saw two types of love, one is the earthy type and one is connected to the divine. Yes he saw sex as healthy and natural for the plebs but ideally it did not taint love which should be directed towards the divine. Ideal love transcends sex.
 

wind

caridwen said:
Plato isn't that difficult to understand or work with.:D
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I need to disagree:) Plato is extremely complex, but yes, looks very easy and approachable, especially in comparison to some of his contemporaries and their complex, enigmatic writings.

In the general view, yes, Plato can be sketched and squeezed into some ideas, but if you explore him for real, things are not simple at all.

His writings, when going into details, are quite enigmatic. There is Good and the Idea of Good, for instance, and he never really explained the difference or cleared which is higher or more supreme...(I think he got confused himself, lol), etc, etc. Moreover, he treats the same subject in different ways, in different dialogues, changes his view, develops, grows, etc.

Don't be fooled by him:) I have a university degree of philosophy and Plato was of course threated thoroughly there. He kept revealing his mysteries in my final years of study still, and only then I understood how far are we from having a full grasp of him. You need to really know him to see how small your understanding is.

Now I am humble enough to say that it is a profound and vast subject, I don't pretend to know him. I have a glimpse, yes, but know him? Say he is simple? No way.

But no need to go into this here, for the general view, a few notions suffice. The rest, experts can take into their playground:)
 

wind

caridwen said:
Plato isn't that difficult to understand or work with.:D

Platonic love refers to his idea of the Ideal. He saw two types of love, one is the earthy type and one is connected to the divine. Yes he saw sex as healthy and natural for the plebs but ideally it did not taint love which should be directed towards the divine. Ideal love transcends sex.
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What you say about love and sex - I agree, in sketch, this is Plato's view.
 

caridwen

wind said:
I need to disagree:) Plato is extremely complex, but yes, looks very easy and approachable, especially in comparison to some of his contemporaries and their complex, enigmatic writings.

In the general view, yes, Plato can be sketched and squeezed into some ideas, but if you explore him for real, things are not simple at all.

His writings, when going into details, are quite enigmatic. There is Good and the Idea of Good, for instance, and he never really explained the difference or cleared which is higher or more supreme...(I think he got confused himself, lol), etc, etc. Moreover, he treats the same subject in different ways, in different dialogues, changes his view, develops, grows, etc.

Don't be fooled by him:) I have a university degree of philosophy and Plato was of course threated thoroughly there. He kept revealed his mysteries in my final years of study still, and only then I understood how far are we from having a full grasp of him. You need to really know him to see how small your understanding is.

Now I am humble enough to say that it is a profound and vast subject, I don't pretend to know him. I have a glimpse, yes, but know him? Say he is simple? No way.

But no need to go into this here, for the general view, a few notions suffice. The rest, experts can take into their playground:)
Click to expand...

With respect. I have a Masters degree in Philosophy. Plato is not a difficult philosopher to grasp. I really don't appreciate being told my understanding of him is "small". He is not diffcult to understand that does not mean his ideas are not complex.
 

caridwen

wind said:
What you say about love and sex - I agree, in sketch, this is Plato's view.
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This is not Plato's view "in sketch" this is his view.
 

wind

caridwen said:
This is not Plato's view "in sketch" this is his view.
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I am quite surprised to see all these Plato experts here:) Now wonder people think he is 'simple':)
If you only use a few sentences to express Plato's notion of eros and philia, for which he used more than one dialogue (book) to treat, this is by all means, a sketch:)
 

caridwen

wind said:
I am quite surprised to see all these Plato experts here:) Now wonder people think he is 'simple':)
If you only use a few sentences to express Plato's notion of eros and philia, for which he used more than one dialogue (book) to treat, this is by all means, a sketch:)
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This is moving beyond the thread and I don't actually see the relevance of Platonic love and Justice. Perhaps you can enlighten us:)
 

wind

caridwen said:
This is moving beyond the thread and I don't actually see the relevance of Platonic love and Justice. Perhaps you can enlighten us:)
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I have no desire nor intention to enlighten anyone on this - I never connected the Justice card with Plato - this is not my idea - but it might be interesting to explore it at some point.
In fact, the Chariot as well could be connected to Plato's notion of love and ascending of the soul (two horses, black and white).

But this is not the time nor the place.

But yes, hehe, Plato is everywhere!:D He is, after all, one of the founders of the western frame of consciousness.

that much from my side.
 

wind

caridwen said:
With respect. I have a Masters degree in Philosophy. Plato is not a difficult philosopher to grasp. I really don't appreciate being told my understanding of him is "small". He is not diffcult to understand that does not mean his ideas are not complex.
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I said MY understanding of Plato is small, I spoke of my experience of exploring him through years of study. If you think your understanding is big, you have all the right to claim so:) Many do.

I for a long time, as a philospher, thought that Plato is a piece of cake. Further analysis disproved me:) Even with my degree in philosophy, I don't claim to have a full and big understanding of Plato - as on other philosphers who were not my main field of research.

It was not my intention to enter into this kind of debate, but I must say that I am surprised, in fact, of the lack of humbleness in these areas. In spite of my degree, I would never claim a very profound understanding of some themes, unless I specifically treated them in thorough researches. And even then, there is always more to discover.

kind regards, enough of the subject, from my side:)
 

Tymofy

Justice as the outcome.

Taking a single card (even though you are using a clearly defined position) and giving it a firm interpretation is not always possible. The card has to be taken in the context of the surrounding cards. They will often make it much easier to assign the right meaning.
 
How can the Hierophant and Justice cards influence Ace of Swords? Looking Down