Quick questions about EDs

Midsummereve

Hello all,

I have general questions about EDs in a 3 card reading, if anyone can enlighten me

So in a 3 card reading, if I have:
Water / fire/ earth
The first 2 cards are in conflict; the last 2 have no effect on each other.

The fire card will be watered down by the water card. Does that mean that the fire card will be read as a reversal?
Does the water card also get affected by its positioning next to the fire card, and be read as a reversal too?
The first 2 cards are in conflict, the middle card and last card are neutral. So the overall effect on the 3 cards will be of mild conflict?

Lastly, if the quint card is fire, how does it affect the overall reading?

I'd appreciate any input on this as I'm trying to make sense of EDs...

rwcarter

In the ED triad WFE, F is the central card and therefore the basis of the reading. Using traditional ED methods, the F card is weakened by the W card and is strengthened by the E card since neutral interactions are considered friendly. Weakened doesn't necessarily equal reversed though. Either the 9W or 10W could be seen as forms of stamina. So the 3C/9W or 3C/10W could be interpreted as the ability to stay on alert (9W) being negatively influenced by too much drinking the night before (3C) or the ability to complete the task at hand (10W) being negatively affected by a hangover (3C).

In WFE, the upright interpretation of F is weakened by the upright interpretation of W and strengthened by the upright interpretation of E. If you use reversed cards with EDs (I don't, but I know others do), you would only use the reversed interpretation if the card itself came up reversed.

I find some of the traditional ED rules to be limiting, so while I would often see F as being weakened by W, given the right two cards, I could see the W joining with Fire to change them both into steam. I guess that could still be seen as weakening the elemental F by turning it into something else.

If the triad were WFW, the two W cards might weaken the F enough to turn it to its more reversed interpretation, but again for me that would depend on what all three cards were.

Applying a Quint card to the triad is a more advanced level of EDs that I would caution against trying to use until you're more comfortable with EDs 101 as it were. Effectively the Quint would become the elemental base of the reading. So you'd have:

WFE
..F..

The F base strengthens the central F, weakening or possibly even neutrailizing the effect of W on the central F. The effect of E on the central F wouldn't change because of the base F.

Rodney

Midsummereve

rwcarter said:
In the ED triad WFE, F is the central card and therefore the basis of the reading. Using traditional ED methods, the F card is weakened by the W card and is strengthened by the E card since neutral interactions are considered friendly. Weakened doesn't necessarily equal reversed though. Either the 9W or 10W could be seen as forms of stamina. So the 3C/9W or 3C/10W could be interpreted as the ability to stay on alert (9W) being negatively influenced by too much drinking the night before (3C) or the ability to complete the task at hand (10W) being negatively affected by a hangover (3C).

In WFE, the upright interpretation of F is weakened by the upright interpretation of W and strengthened by the upright interpretation of E. If you use reversed cards with EDs (I don't, but I know others do), you would only use the reversed interpretation if the card itself came up reversed.

I find some of the traditional ED rules to be limiting, so while I would often see F as being weakened by W, given the right two cards, I could see the W joining with Fire to change them both into steam. I guess that could still be seen as weakening the elemental F by turning it into something else.

If the triad were WFW, the two W cards might weaken the F enough to turn it to its more reversed interpretation, but again for me that would depend on what all three cards were.

Applying a Quint card to the triad is a more advanced level of EDs that I would caution against trying to use until you're more comfortable with EDs 101 as it were. Effectively the Quint would become the elemental base of the reading. So you'd have:

WFE
..F..

The F base strengthens the central F, weakening or possibly even neutrailizing the effect of W on the central F. The effect of E on the central F wouldn't change because of the base F.

Rodney

Thank you, Rodney. I am compiling a list of questions on EDs (unless there's a detailed and accessible book I could study on those and that you could recommend?)

I am now trying to make sense of "unfriendly" interactions between the Quint and the center card.
If we have the Devil (Earth) as the center card of a triad, and the Quint is Air (Justice), what happens to the Earth card then? I understand that it becomes "ill-dignified", so would it be read as either blocked, or reversed? Say we are considering a relationship outcome. The Devil stands for bondage when upright/ well dignified. Justice stands as fairness, getting what one deserves (karmic justice, what goes around, comes around).

How does Justice influence the Devil card here? Does Justice remain "upright", or would we read it weakened, or negatively influenced by the presence of the Devil card in the center? How would Justice be read here? As, simply, lack of fairness in that relationship? The Devil, when ill dignified, could either mean freedom from bondage or fear of entering a relationship.

Could you help me understand the mechanisms behind the interaction of "ill-dignified" cards (Quint + center card) using the example I've taken?

rwcarter

Midsummereve said:
Thank you, Rodney. I am compiling a list of questions on EDs (unless there's a detailed and accessible book I could study on those and that you could recommend?)

I don't know of any books that go in depth on EDs. I don't like the current incarnation of the SuperTarot pages cause I can't find anything any more. But this page contains an overview of EDs including using the Element Base. In all the years since I started to learn EDs, I have never ventured into elemental bases.

Midsummereve said:
I am now trying to make sense of "unfriendly" interactions between the Quint and the center card.

As I've already said that's a more advanced topic that you should probably wait to use until you have a firmer foundation with EDs.

Midsummereve said:
If we have the Devil (Earth) as the center card of a triad, and the Quint is Air (Justice), what happens to the Earth card then? I understand that it becomes "ill-dignified", so would it be read as either blocked, or reversed? Say we are considering a relationship outcome. The Devil stands for bondage when upright/ well dignified. Justice stands as fairness, getting what one deserves (karmic justice, what goes around, comes around).

How does Justice influence the Devil card here? Does Justice remain "upright", or would we read it weakened, or negatively influenced by the presence of the Devil card in the center? How would Justice be read here? As, simply, lack of fairness in that relationship? The Devil, when ill dignified, could either mean freedom from bondage or fear of entering a relationship.

Could you help me understand the mechanisms behind the interaction of "ill-dignified" cards (Quint + center card) using the example I've taken?

My understanding of elemental bases is that the interaction between the base card and the central card is stronger than the interaction of the central card and either flanking card. So a Justice base would weaken the Devil more than a flanking Air card would. And as I've already said, weakened doesn't necessarily mean reversed. When using the Base, it's stronger than the central card. So the Devil is weakened by Justice, not the other way around. So as outcome, Justice weakens the Devil's hold allowing those who are in bondage to the Devil to escape their bonds. Even if the Devil were surrounded by Earth cards, each of those would be interpreted through the lens of the base Air card, weakening them too.

Of course my understanding of how the Base is used could be wrong since I haven't done any study of it. If/when the EDSG ever completes the first set of exercises, I had planned on moving onto the Base and we would all learn it together. I don't have the time right now to study elemental bases, so if you wish to continue learning how to use them, you'll be on your own. But then you can teach the rest of us!

Rodney

Midsummereve

rwcarter said:
I don't know of any books that go in depth on EDs. I don't like the current incarnation of the SuperTarot pages cause I can't find anything any more. But this page contains an overview of EDs including using the Element Base.

Thank you for this, I will check it out

rwcarter said:
As I've already said that's a more advanced topic that you should probably wait to use until you have a firmer foundation with EDs.

I understand, but using the quint can totally alter the interp of a reading when we use EDs, so I'd be getting my readings all wrong if I ignored it.

rwcarter said:
My understanding of elemental bases is that the interaction between the base card and the central card is stronger than the interaction of the central card and either flanking card. So a Justice base would weaken the Devil more than a flanking Air card would. And as I've already said, weakened doesn't necessarily mean reversed. When using the Base, it's stronger than the central card. So the Devil is weakened by Justice, not the other way around. So as outcome, Justice weakens the Devil's hold allowing those who are in bondage to the Devil to escape their bonds. Even if the Devil were surrounded by Earth cards, each of those would be interpreted through the lens of the base Air card, weakening them too.

OK, I get it.

rwcarter said:
Of course my understanding of how the Base is used could be wrong since I haven't done any study of it. If/when the EDSG ever completes the first set of exercises, I had planned on moving onto the Base and we would all learn it together. I don't have the time right now to study elemental bases, so if you wish to continue learning how to use them, you'll be on your own. But then you can teach the rest of us!

Hehe, perhaps I will, one day. But by that time we might both be very old and grey